Seaport Square (Formerly McCourt Seaport Parcels)

stellarfun said:
The juxtaposition of a "Fallen Heroes" memorial room inside a food court is insensitive in the least, and crassly commercial at worst.
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The way you stated that - inside the food court - I would totally agree. However, all we really know so far is that they are in the same building and that building is a block long. No one said it was in the the food court. If it has a separate entrance I think that greatly relieves the contrast.
 
fattony, I am going off the text in the Herald's description, "inside the food pavilion". Emphasis added.
 
stellarfun said:
fattony, I am going off the text in the Herald's description, "inside the food pavilion". Emphasis added.
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Stellar I think your emphasis is on the wrong word, you stated multiple times Food Court. The article states Food Pavilion. I believe the author implies that the food Pavilion will be the name of the building housing the full service restaurant and the other food vendors as well as the memorial space.

If it is located off of a food court in this building your worry is correct, but based on all the materials/renderings we have available (Specifically the 4th render in the page I provided a few posts above) the memorial space would have a separate entrance and just be housed in the same building.
 
quinninin said:
If it is located off of a food court in this building your worry is correct, but based on all the materials/renderings we have available (Specifically the 4th render in the page I provided a few posts above) the memorial space would have a separate entrance and just be housed in the same building.
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Yep. If you look at the third one, it actually shows the small room with a dedicated entrance as part of the memorial and leaves the rest of the building out. "Food Pavilion" is just the name of the overall building, not the location of the memorial room.

Also, I just looked at the render again, and are they moving Northern Ave. to build this? The way the render is laid out has the "District Hall" on the left, with the completed green up top, and a fairly wide, rectangular site (3x as wide as the District Hall). The NE corner of the District Hall sits right on the bend in Northern Ave, making a rectangular site impossible. The map from the prior post cheats and just covers the District Hall with a green box...
 
stellarfun said:
fattony, I am going off the text in the Herald's description, "inside the food pavilion". Emphasis added.
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Is this entire debate based off the semantics of one sentence in a Herald article?

If you want to focus on one sentence, focus on this one:

The tree-lined public area — a mix of green space and promenades, with plantings and seating — would include the Massachusetts Iraq and Afghanistan Fallen Heroes Memorial, a 50-foot obelisk honoring Bay State servicemen and women killed since Sept. 11, 2001.
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It's not a memorial with a food court or a memorial inside a food court, it's a public park that includes, among other things, a water feature, plantings, seating, an obelisk honoring falling soldiers, a restaurant, food vendors, and a memorial room. And the final design isn't even worked out yet!

Equilibria said:
Also, I just looked at the render again, and are they moving Northern Ave. to build this? The way the render is laid out has the "District Hall" on the left, with the completed green up top, and a fairly wide, rectangular site (3x as wide as the District Hall). The NE corner of the District Hall sits right on the bend in Northern Ave, making a rectangular site impossible. The map from the prior post cheats and just covers the District Hall with a green box...
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I thought the plan was always to move Northern Ave so that it formed two right angles. Better way to use all the space:

Officejab said:
picture.php


http://bostonherald.com/business/real_estate/2012/12/block_block
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I got this out of a BRA document a while back. From the sound of it the intent is realign Northern Avenue.

FanpierNorthernAvealignment.jpg
 
I'm not sure this is still the plan, since the front of pier 4 is diagonally aligned with the current northern ave.
 
It's too bad it's no longer called Pittsburgh Street.
I still usually cal lit that, and people no longer know what I am talking about....
 
Built to match the angle for now then meet the new curb with the plaza?
I like it. Too bad this is the only way to not get rectangular buildings all over.
 
Ugh... so despite the general acknowledgement that Boston's strength is in its squares, and that this development is called seaport square, they are realigning the grid to get rid of the physical square... awesome. This also leaves us with yet another street that doesn't connect to itself thanks to urban renewal..
 
davem said:
Ugh... so despite the general acknowledgement that Boston's strength is in its squares, and that this development is called seaport square, they are realigning the grid to get rid of the physical square... awesome. This also leaves us with yet another street that doesn't connect to itself thanks to urban renewal..
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Really? I don't think that many people will miss the intersection of E. Service Road and Seaport Boulevard. There's still going to be an intersection there, just not with Northern Ave. Also, I don't think Northern Ave. continues anywhere...

If anything, if the realignment allows for that plaza at the intersection, doesn't really create a public square more than it destroys one?
 
davem said:
Ugh... so despite the general acknowledgement that Boston's strength is in its squares, and that this development is called seaport square, they are realigning the grid to get rid of the physical square... awesome. This also leaves us with yet another street that doesn't connect to itself thanks to urban renewal..
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Minor niggle, the GP building is Fan Pier or non-associated, it is not Seaport Square.

And the Pier 4 building aligns with an old North Ave configuration (I think) but definitely not an existing one. I think it is more likely the angle on Pier 4 is done for views to the West and to align with Whiskey Priest. Perhaps the lot line does not even extend there and it's just a public area / temp construction easement.
 
Equilibria said:
Really? I don't think that many people will miss the intersection of E. Service Road and Seaport Boulevard. There's still going to be an intersection there, just not with Northern Ave. Also, I don't think Northern Ave. continues anywhere...

If anything, if the realignment allows for that plaza at the intersection, doesn't really create a public square more than it destroys one?
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Its still northern ave past Harpoon to the cruise terminal. And I was thinking more of loosing the triangular parcel created by the current alignment of northern ave and seaport blvd. A flatiron building would add more varirity than another rectangular parcel.

The plaza would probably exist in front of pier 4 regardless of the street grid, like the way Lafayette Square is configured.

Its not really that huge of a deal, I just feel like they are sterilizing one of the few unique aspects of the seaports grid for no clear reason (other than boring rectangular lots).
 
davem said:
Its still northern ave past Harpoon to the cruise terminal. And I was thinking more of loosing the triangular parcel created by the current alignment of northern ave and seaport blvd. A flatiron building would add more varirity than another rectangular parcel.

The plaza would probably exist in front of pier 4 regardless of the street grid, like the way Lafayette Square is configured.

Its not really that huge of a deal, I just feel like they are sterilizing one of the few unique aspects of the seaports grid for no clear reason (other than boring rectangular lots).
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Well, as Paul pointed out, one reason might be the different ownership of the two sides of Northern. The south side is SS, the north Fan Pier and Pier 4. With the street relocated, the SS side gets bigger (this must have been resolved when the property was being divvied up).

As for aesthetics, the Pier 4 building has a sharp corner, doesn't it? I'm not sure it would make that much of a difference, since they aren't heavily-trafficked streets, but I see your point.

FWIW, it should be Seaport Blvd. all the way to the cruise terminal. Better yet, rename the whole thing Oliver St. :) I didn't see that on the first Google run, so thanks for correcting me.
 
IIRC, the businesses on the far stretch of northern resisted the name change because of the century old association of it with Boston's fishing industry. I agree with you on Oliver St though...
 
I think the entire rest of Boston has plenty of non typical streets to go around and even the fort point area of Southie. I like that this area is going to be a grid, because in Boston that is actually rare.
 
stick n move said:
I think the entire rest of Boston has plenty of non typical streets to go around and even the fort point area of Southie. I like that this area is going to be a grid, because in Boston that is actually rare.
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back bay......south boston.......south end......east boston.....fenway.......yeah
 
The back bay and southie yes, the rest are a grid in a sense but not the perfect grid that gets boring that many other cities have. Even so really only seaport square and fan pier will really be a perfect grid after that it gets more random with congress st meandering through the seaport.
 
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