Seaport Square (Formerly McCourt Seaport Parcels)

My argument against chains is that we can always do better. Everyone knows the formula for an ESPNZone, a few minor tweaks notwithstanding. After the first few have opened up, additional locations can hardly be called new or innovative. I agree that Seaport Square is a better spot for the chains than the Back Bay, but I can't get excited about the prospect of another chain restaurant coming to town, no matter how big its TVs are.

With any blank-slate retail space, why not be truly optimistic and hope an innovative, sui generis place will open, the likes of which nobody in Providence or Chattanooga or Orlando has ever imagined? Something that might open a whole new trend or way of thinking about cuisine, cocktails or decor? Be it a sports bar, coffee shop, steakhouse, or martini bar, a restaurant or bar whose creation involves some original thought has more potential to do that than a Bugaboo Creek or Planet Hollywood or ESPNZone, rolled out according to a safe, tested plan.

Additionally, our patronage of such a place would line the pockets of a local owner, money that would be much more likely to find its way back to Seaport Square or other waterfront parcels in investments. Lydia Shire will always be looking to open a new restaurant in Boston if she has some cash. ESPNZone won't open more than one in Boston. Nor will the owners of ESPNZone be apt to live in the Seaport and have any desire to, say, make a donation toward a better bus shelter or an upgraded basketball court for their kids to play on in the park.

With that said, of course there are people who like ESPNZone, and this seems a better place than Copley (though not as good as Burlington) for it. But the Seaport would stir fewer doubts about its authenticity as a Boston neighborhood, attract more residents and tourists, and ultimately be more successful if it relied on local restaurateurs and entrepreneurs with a vested stake in the area than if it relied on chains that, like B&N in DTX, can pull out without caring much about what a mess they leave behind.
 
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And I want a Kelly's Roast Beef down here. Badly.
 
I agree that chains are bad, when you've got free-standing 99s and Applebees everywhere, but throw in a few big, slightly (and i know i'll get ripped on for this) less generic ones like espn zone, and it will jumpstart the community and the unique local places will come.
 
I agree. It's a much easier pill to swallow when a chain moves into a large building and is located within a built environment, than when Company X moves in and builds the same exact blueprint of every other Company X building in a suburban setting surrounded by parking. Eventually chains will get worked out of the system as the land value raises and the neighborhood becomes more settled.
 
I'll just take the next couple of plays off...stop talkin for awhile.
 
but throw in a few big, slightly (and i know i'll get ripped on for this) less generic ones like espn zone, and it will jumpstart the community and the unique local places will come.

ESPN Zone isn't generic in terms of how many are around, but in terms of what they have to offer? It's one of the most generic sports bars ever. First off, the food sucks and they have shitty beer. Second, it's basically all tourists. Most people from Boston have their own bars (Game On, Cask N' Flagon, etc.) where they go to watch games with atmosphere. ESPN Zone is like Dave and Buster's with more of a sports theme and worse food. It's not something to get excited over.
 
^You would argue that Dave and Buster's has better food than ESPN Zone? I know both are borderline terrible, but I'd say Dave and Buster's food is by far the worst of the theme restaurants I've been to (which, sadly, is far too many).

The only "Exciting" thing about an ESPNZone is the fact that it would draw people to the area that otherwise wouldn't go. It's an automatic draw, and it's an established business that people from all over know. The food's terrible, the atmosphere is non-existent, and the decor is tackier than a Key-West style bar in Alaska; but there's no question that ESPN Zone is a draw. And given that the location of this project is sort of off the beaten path to anyone from outside the city (myself included), anything that draws people there is good for business. The hope is that once the area becomes more established as a destination, ESPN Zone will leave or be overshadowed by something far greater; but it's role as a tourist magnet could be useful even though it's an annoying concept chain restaurant.

Anyways, I forgot how the discussion got here; is ESPN Zone actually a potential tenant for this project, or are we just debating IF it would be a good tenant?
 
I believe this is hypothetical, but I might be wrong.

Just a question - Are you seriously worried that the presence of ESPNZone or D&B's will drive out the locally run, mom-and-pop massive video arcades? There's a purpose and a market here that really is only filled by chains.
 
^Is that question directed at me? If it is, I don't know where you got the idea that I was worried it would drive out local businesses.

I think this location is perfect for ESPN Zone regardless of how I personally feel about the restaurant. It's hard to get people to go to a new area and ESPN Zone would help big time with the out of town crowd (and the locals to a degree). I don't think it it'll drive anyone out, to the contrary, having a landmark store in the area bringing in customers can be a cornerstone for helping local businesses get off the ground.
 
Yes, oddly (sadly?) the last 6 pages of discussion of ESPN Zone were inspired by a rendering of Seaport Square (see p. 20 of the March 25 presentation on the Seaport Sq. web site) that included signs for ESPN Zone, Diesel and Puma on the buildings. Usually those rendering logos are purely representational and don't mean that contracts have actually been signed with the retailers depicted...
 
The "you" was a more general, plural form. Sorry.

^^ Yeah, that's what I'd thought. Then again, since there's no new news on this, we need something to argue about or else we'd get bored.
 
Whatever happened to the Drew scheme for Waterside place and/or other developments in the area? Any news? Waterside Place seemed to drop-of the map since last summer...? It'd be great if they pulled through someday and had a grocery store in the Seaport Area. Granted there isn't the housing mass yet to sustain one...but I think if it was a whole foods or even stop/shop or shaw's, people would come to it. Also the area needs a driving range like chelsea piers...haha, now that would be fun.
 
Driving range is not a bad idea. And the supermarkets will follow the housing, not vice versa.
 
For those who need a reminder we got here when i said "Is that a...my goodness it is..ESPN Zone!"

of course, I didn't know it was some tacky theme restraunt, i thought it was kind of like a store/mesuem.
 

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