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Re: South Station Tower

My take on the elevated waiting area was to cram more (or relocate existing) food places and shops and to add more waiting space and places to sit. With thoughts of Cape Rail, South Coast Rail, NEC volume increases, etc, South Station is simply going to need more room (IMO).
 
Re: South Station Tower

The inside of the existing bus terminal is ridiculous. You can't take one elevator or escalator from street to buses - there's at least two, plus a long walk down a dark corridor. And, getting into the bus terminal from South Station is a nice brisk walk up and down stairs, as well.

The "inconvenient" train location must be the cause, but couldn't they have come up with a better plan?
 
Re: South Station Tower

Perhaps, John, but South Station's bus terminal is one of the more modern, well-maintained and pleasant bus stations in the country. Compare it to the Port Authority building in New York (i.e., one of the few ratholes among America's largest pieces of public infrastructure that is less pleasant -- and much less so at that -- than Penn Station).

Ditto for the bus station in DC, which is essentially a 7-11 converted into a Greyhound docking area.

South Station sets the standard (at least on the East Coast) for well-equipped, well-constructed bus stations. It actually conveys some grandeur, design, and comfort. And, in at least IMO, you feel fairly good walking through it.
 
Re: South Station Tower

Agree 100% with itchy -- especially when you compare it to the several dingy and depressing facilities that it replaced.

The main problem it has is that it is over capacity and needs to be expanded.
 
Re: South Station Tower

That's some weird shit. Love it!
 
Re: South Station Tower

I, on the other hand, loathe it. It has one tower and a few low rise buildings that do not belong in a downtown, especially not near the waterfront. Granted that there are quite a few retail options for the masses, but I hope that the rendered Boston Market doesn't make it.
 
Re: South Station Tower

I agree with pel_north. The tower's great, but along FPC, we get a bunch of low-lying throwaway buildings of 3-4 stories, connected by what looks like a one-floor piece of junk retail space (what they call "taxpayers" in NYC). We can all rest assured that, were this ever to be built, we'd get a Subway and a CVS in the one-story part.
 
Re: South Station Tower

I, on the other hand, loathe it. It has one tower and a few low rise buildings that do not belong in a downtown, especially not near the waterfront. Granted that there are quite a few retail options for the masses, but I hope that the rendered Boston Market doesn't make it.

I think the "1 story buildings" are just Potemkin style facades 1 bay thick in front of tracks

The only place where you can place the major tower is in the center of the existing platforms where structural footings were already installed -- the rest of the fill is so marginal that the Big Dig construction employed the heroic engineering of freezing the soil so that it could be excavated

To build tall along Dorchester Ave. you would need deep drilled shafts and there are a lot of things underground already that you'd have to avoid

However, despite the limitations I think that the total square footage in the complete South Station Complex as originally proposed is not too much less than that of the Pru Complex
 
Re: South Station Tower

I think that was just for the new tracks where the USPS was?

Busses -- I think that the raised area offers access to the tower as well as the middle of the platforms of all of the tracks

Since they took off the Euro-style glass shed roof over the tracks in the 1930's because of corrosion the platforms at South Station were exposed to the elements with only a small roof over the center of each platform to protect someone walking the length of the train as the only access is from the end next to the existing waiting area

The plan for the tower and new tracks tries to functionally recreate the features if not the grandeur of the 1900 Shepley Rutan and Coolidge masterwork

http://www.greatamericanstations.com/Stations/BOS/Station_view

Here's some of what it was once like:
opened on January 1, 1899. It was dedicated on New Year’s Eve with considerable ceremony, including speeches by the mayor and company president and the building was packed for the celebration.

This five-story neo-classical revival-style station was built by Shepley, Rutan and Coolidge and designed by Norcross Brothers. Its elegant entrance looked much as it does today, with three double doors opening to the corner of the crossed avenues, overseen by numerous windows in an elevated colonnade and graced by a monumental clock topped by an eagle with an eight-foot wingspan. The headhouse sits at a diagonal to the tracks, and the train shed covered the passenger platforms to allow indoor boarding of the trains. The waiting room, which could accommodate over 1,500 passengers, was 225 feet long and 65 feet wide. Its floor was decorated with a marble mosaic, and the walls were a combination of polished granite, enameled brick and plaster, illuminated by 1,200 electric lights placed along the walls and coffered ceilings. Light streamed in through great arched windows facing Summer Street to light the headhouse. Railroad offices occupied the floors above the public spaces.

The early station offered a women’s waiting room with complete amenities. In the general waiting area, oak benches were placed to form alcoves. Ornamental kiosks in the center of the room sold confections and flowers, and other retail space offered newsstands and sundries. Forty-five bathrooms offered further convenience, and there was a private telephone exchange and bicycle parking. Railroad employees likewise enjoyed dressing rooms and their own check system for hats and coats, as well as a mail chute with mail sorting room and speaking tubes. From the wide waiting room, passengers had access to a lunch room with 200 stools and counters made from Tennessee marble and mahogany. Upstairs sat a large dining room, a kitchen, and additional serving rooms for private parties and receptions.
For the next several decades, South Station was the busiest terminal in the country, serving nearly 40 million passengers a year. The train shed was demolished and rebuilt in 1930 in a $2.5 million renovation. Over the years, open tracks were walled in from the street and terrazzo floors were added in modernizing the station. Other additions included a new restaurant, ticket office, movie theater and parking garage.

http://www.south-station.net/Station-History/Throughtheyears

By the time the inaugural day of service had ended, 62 trains had departed the new station. In its first week of operations, the station welcomed 250 daily trains and by the fall of 1899, South Station was handling almost 740 trains each day.......
While it was already the largest, South Station quickly became the busiest train station in the world, handling about 38 million passengers in 1913, ranking higher than its second nearest competitor, Boston’s North Station, which handled 29 million and New York’s Grand Central Station, which handled 22 million that same year.

Following the heights of the early 1900s came a long period of further consolidations and decline in train travel.

Within 30 years of its opening, South Station’s metal train shed and the two-story metal-covered midway were demolished due to deterioration. Around that same time, interior alterations were made to passenger waiting rooms and service areas.

During World War I, a government takeover of rail helped stem the industry’s financial problems. Despite financial difficulties, passenger numbers still held strong. Then, in 1929, The Great Depression added to the station’s declining fortunes.

During World War II, trains were filled with soldiers traveling for military purposes. In 1945, swollen by GIs returning from war, South Station again made history when over 135,000 visitors poured into its halls each day.
 
Re: South Station Tower

I would love this kind of Euro train station in Boston! We'd definitely be even more prominent on the map for train travel in the US. Imagine the Acela gliding in here too after completing a true HSR trip from DC. It's nice to dream. ;-)

Next stop - Boston Hauptbahnhof. =)
 
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Re: South Station Tower

I agree with Westie that the Dot Ave retail would really just have to be one-story "stalls" between the avenue and the new tracks. One interesting addition could be a bus terminal extension over the new tracks and with an entrance/exit on the Dot Ave side, by the new retail, as well.
 
Re: South Station Tower

To build tall along Dorchester Ave. you would need deep drilled shafts and there are a lot of things underground already that you'd have to avoid.

You need deep drilled shafts or caissons or piles for pretty much all tall buildings in Boston, Lower Manhattan or the Chicago Loop (because there's so much filled land in those three spots). That fact has not, historically, prevented height in these locations.
 
Re: South Station Tower

You need deep drilled shafts or caissons or piles for pretty much all tall buildings in Boston, Lower Manhattan or the Chicago Loop (because there's so much filled land in those three spots). That fact has not, historically, prevented height in these locations.

IFRC wasn't Lower Manhattan an actual island already; swamp or not it still had the same shape as it did 400 years ago, whereas Boston and Chicago didn't. Chicago and Boston filled in land with bricks and other debris that were spots from the extensive fire damage they both sustained in the 1800s didn't they?
 
Re: South Station Tower

Plenty of landfill went into making present-day Manhattan too:

Landfill-lower-manhattan.jpg
 
Re: South Station Tower

You need deep drilled shafts or caissons or piles for pretty much all tall buildings in Boston, Lower Manhattan or the Chicago Loop (because there's so much filled land in those three spots). That fact has not, historically, prevented height in these locations.

TBH, you often need it even if you aren't building for height. My understanding is that deep piers are now needed to hold a building down from "popping up" from abrupt shifts in the water table (like during a seismic event).
 
Re: South Station Tower

I never wanted to get into a discussion of the details of construction between the platfoms and the street -- Obviously you could build to some scale along the FPC as the U.S.P.S. "factory" is really quite a significant building although only 4 stories tall

The real limitation is that you have to build the tracks and platforms first -- that's the whole motivation for the expansion of South Station -- its first and foremost a Railroad Station -- the rest of the development can be built around and about and above the tracks -- but the tracks and platforms are the priority

From the BRA perspective the goal is to widen the pedestrian part of the borders of the FPC and to restore auto traffic to Dorchester Avenue -- that defines where the building footprint can extend to on the Dot Ave side. The tracks and platforms define where the building can go on the other side. What you end-up with is a long narrow arcade along Dot Ave -- most likely a railroad station version of 'Liberty Wharf"

I suppose that you could create another Center Plaza -- but I'm sure most here wouldn't like that too much
 
Re: South Station Tower

Maybe we don't actually have to restore Dorchester Ave as a full street -- just as a path wide enough for foot and bike traffic? We've gone a few decades already without cars using this part of the street. Reducing the Dot Ave right-of-way could allow larger (deeper) storefronts.
 

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