The Alcott (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

[kmp1284]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

I'm all for fixing the mistakes of the past, and Charles River Park is a hell of a mistake. The West End as it currently exists is not good.

It is also true that the renters who live at 65 Martha Road are human beings, and saying completely dismissive things about how they have no right to live there is a guaranteed way to ensure that there is never any redevelopment of the site. I know it's hard, but it's possible to encourage positive developments without treating current residents like pieces of dog shit stuck to the bottom of your shoe.

Very low Porsche ownership rate. Also rumored that only three residents vacationed in Malibu last year. Tear it down.

 

[DBM]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

Very low Porsche ownership rate. Also rumored that only three residents vacationed in Malibu last year. Tear it down.

You forgot: a deplorable lack of surfer tenants at the property, he he he...

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

The west end is a horrific disaster but the irony is it's the cheapest part of downtown Boston. Cheaper than back bay, fenway, southie, north end you name it. Its ugly and it's a suburban park with no soul and shitty architecture... and in the current sad state of the Boston real estate scene it's actually a good thing in my mind- you can actually get reasonable prices on rentals and that's not such a bad thing. DZ I'm most definitely just opposing you for the hell of it, I like tall buildings too. But for those of us that dont make 200k but still want to live downtown in a decent apartment, this is surprisingly a decent option.

 

[FitchburgLine]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

Says the person who gets his panties twisted over building heights to the inch. No shit it was reactionary. That is literally what that was. I have no idea where the "hypocritical" comes from.

He's being generous. The hypocritical position is claiming that 65 Martha can never be redeveloped but not believing that about other buildings. The much more extreme position that some people implicitly advanced is that any residential building can't be redeveloped because people live there. Stasis is bad for cities and the people who live in them, and it was much easier for non-rich people to find places to live before the current policy of restrictive zoning and land use took hold.

 

[type001]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

He's being generous. The hypocritical position is claiming that 65 Martha can never be redeveloped but not believing that about other buildings. The much more extreme position that some people implicitly advanced is that any residential building can't be redeveloped because people live there. Stasis is bad for cities and the people who live in them, and it was much easier for non-rich people to find places to live before the current policy of restrictive zoning and land use took hold.

OK, I'll play along. Yes, that would be a hypocritical position. The thing is, I never wrote that 65 Martha could not be redeveloped. My whole issue at the beginning of this is that Odurandina keeps targeting it non-stop, and people live there. Let the Landlords and tenants work it out first.

I am not even going to address DZH's rant, as it was not relevant to my earlier point.

 

[Coyote137]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

Who said 65 Martha Road should never be redeveloped? I must have missed that post. I also missed where it was "implicitly advanced," but I tend not to read minds.

 

[lapradetom]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

Quick, Beeline, please post a pic to bring me back to "on-thread reality". (I always count on this happening-Beeline is my defacto AB psychotherapist)

 

[pixelsand8]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

What I find disgusting about odurandina's comments is that many people living in 65 Martha are on Section 8, and many of them are elderly and/or disabled and the kinds of people who would get displaced out of the city (or maybe onto the street) if that parcel was to be redeveloped. Posts like this are part of the reason I don't bother with this forum much anymore. It's not just people like him (though he's one of the worst offenders and I'm glad he's been called out by other posters) but there is a general culture of callous disregard for the most desperate and poverty stricken individuals in this city, who are I guess now inconveniently standing in the way of developing high rise super condos and thus need to be forcibly removed.

Not to single out this forum - plenty of posters here seem seem cool, albeit often misguided on how to deal with the housing crisis (imo) - this place is more just a reflection of what Boston itself is becoming. A fully gentrified city where only one kind of person is allowed to live - the kind of person who can make gobs of money in order to pay the exorbitant housing costs. Everyone else can fuck off to some other cheaper place or jump into the harbor for all some seem to care. Whatever they do they don't deserve to live here!

 

[Jouhou]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

What I find disgusting about odurandina's comments is that many people living in 65 Martha are on Section 8, and many of them are elderly and/or disabled and the kinds of people who would get displaced out of the city (or maybe onto the street) if that parcel was to be redeveloped. Posts like this are part of the reason I don't bother with this forum much anymore. It's not just people like him (though he's one of the worst offenders and I'm glad he's been called out by other posters) but there is a general culture of callous disregard for the most desperate and poverty stricken individuals in this city, who are I guess now inconveniently standing in the way of developing high rise super condos and thus need to be forcibly removed.

Not to single out this forum - plenty of posters here seem seem cool, albeit often misguided on how to deal with the housing crisis (imo) - this place is more just a reflection of what Boston itself is becoming. A fully gentrified city where only one kind of person is allowed to live - the kind of person who can make gobs of money in order to pay the exorbitant housing costs. Everyone else can fuck off to some other cheaper place or jump into the harbor for all some seem to care. Whatever they do they don't deserve to live here!

Ok so I hate to contribute to the derailment here, but for someone who hangs out here you should know by now whats creating the housing crisis. "Gentrification" might be what prices people out of a neighborhood, but it absolutely is not whats creating the crisis. Gentrification is what happens when wealthy people are priced out of wealthy neighborhoods because no one will allow increased density so the wealthier people come and buy up old housing stock causing prices to skyrocket.

I got priced out of my old neighborhood. My fellow citizens thought placing a moratorium on new construction was The solution to rising prices (idiots). I tried convincing them otherwise. Most of us got priced out or evicted soon after that.

The problem is the ratio of housing built to jobs created. It's why I cringe when I hear local politicians talk about creating "jobs". We have jobs, build housing to support those jobs.



So basically I'm not supporting existing affordable housing to be demolished, I'm saying if someone wants to build a pile of ultra luxury housing on a parking lot, no one should be trying to get the developer to lower their density. People need a place to live, if you take measures to make a market more competitive the people with the most money will win out.

 

[KentXie]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

Ok so I hate to contribute to the derailment here, but for someone who hangs out here you should know by now whats creating the housing crisis. "Gentrification" might be what prices people out of a neighborhood, but it absolutely is not whats creating the crisis. Gentrification is what happens when wealthy people are priced out of wealthy neighborhoods because no one will allow increased density so the wealthier people come and buy up old housing stock causing prices to skyrocket.

I got priced out of my old neighborhood. My fellow citizens thought placing a moratorium on new construction was The solution to rising prices (idiots). I tried convincing them otherwise. Most of us got priced out or evicted soon after that.

The problem is the ratio of housing built to jobs created. It's why I cringe when I hear local politicians talk about creating "jobs". We have jobs, build housing to support those jobs.

So basically I'm not supporting existing affordable housing to be demolished, I'm saying if someone wants to build a pile of ultra luxury housing on a parking lot, no one should be trying to get the developer to lower their density. People need a place to live, if you take measures to make a market more competitive the people with the most money will win out.

Jouhou, you are missing the half of what gentrification is. Yes gentrification is caused by inefficiency in the housing market, specifically by those who are wealthy.

However, gentrification also means the displacement of long term residents and the long term existing culture due to a lack in effort and consideration of what to do with the existing residences and how to incorporate them into the new neighborhood.

This lack of consideration seems to be most prevalent when it involves long-term residents of low income, POC, and immigrants (and when I mean immigrants, I'm not including whites unless they are Jewish because we all know nobody in this country cares if the immigrant came from a European country). Don't believe me? Ever wonder why the entire North End didn't get gentrified despite being a mile from downtown, despite the fact it is alongside the waterfront, despite the fact that height limits there are capped at anywhere from 700-800ft, and despite the fact it is within access to the blue, orange, and green lines and the commuter rail? That area doesn't have one single high-rise despite the fact that the area is incredibly valuable.

That's because we see it as an abomination if we let "Little Italy" turn into anywhere Boston, while Boston piles high-rises after high-rises in neighborhoods like Chinatown that benefits few of the existing residents in that neighborhood.

And btw, this culture of not caring about other people is not just restricted to the forum. It's prevalent throughout the nation. It's part of the American culture.

And no, I'm not calling for Boston to halt all redevelopment. What I'm calling for is that we don't redevelop a parcel for a high-rise without any consideration of the existing residents (which is the same stance I have for the redevelopment of Charlestown) just because one or two people on the forum masturbates to it.

 

[Jouhou]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

Jouhou, you are missing the half of what gentrification is. Yes gentrification is caused by inefficiency in the housing market, specifically by those who are wealthy.

However, gentrification also means the displacement of long term residents and the long term existing culture due to a lack in effort and consideration of what to do with the existing residences and how to incorporate them into the new neighborhood.

This lack of consideration seems to be most prevalent when it involves long-term residents of low income, POC, and immigrants (and when I mean immigrants, I'm not including whites unless they are Jewish because we all know nobody in this country cares if the immigrant came from a European country). Don't believe me? Ever wonder why the entire North End didn't get gentrified despite being a mile from downtown, despite the fact it is alongside the waterfront, despite the fact that height limits there are capped at anywhere from 700-800ft, and despite the fact it is within access to the blue, orange, and green lines and the commuter rail? That area doesn't have one single high-rise despite the fact that the area is incredibly valuable.

That's because we see it as an abomination if we let "Little Italy" turn into anywhere Boston, while Boston piles high-rises after high-rises in neighborhoods like Chinatown that benefits few of the existing residents in that neighborhood.

And btw, this culture of not caring about other people is not just restricted to the forum. It's prevalent throughout the nation. It's part of the American culture.

And no, I'm not calling for Boston to halt all redevelopment. What I'm calling for is that we don't redevelop a parcel for a high-rise without any consideration of the existing residents (which is the same stance I have for the redevelopment of Charlestown) just because one or two people on the forum masturbates to it.

So at this point I'm just counting on mods to split this off into a separate thread because it ought to be discussed:

You just accidentally argued FOR racially segregating neighborhoods. The creation of impoverished neighborhoods full of races excluding Caucasians was literally a byproduct of culturally ingrained racism. Discuss. I don't think white people seeing other races as equals and casually moving into their neighborhoods is the problem.

 

[lapradetom]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

What I find disgusting about odurandina's comments is that many people living in 65 Martha are on Section 8, and many of them are elderly and/or disabled and the kinds of people who would get displaced out of the city (or maybe onto the street) if that parcel was to be redeveloped. Posts like this are part of the reason I don't bother with this forum much anymore. It's not just people like him (though he's one of the worst offenders and I'm glad he's been called out by other posters) but there is a general culture of callous disregard for the most desperate and poverty stricken individuals in this city, who are I guess now inconveniently standing in the way of developing high rise super condos and thus need to be forcibly removed.

Not to single out this forum - plenty of posters here seem seem cool, albeit often misguided on how to deal with the housing crisis (imo) - this place is more just a reflection of what Boston itself is becoming. A fully gentrified city where only one kind of person is allowed to live - the kind of person who can make gobs of money in order to pay the exorbitant housing costs. Everyone else can fuck off to some other cheaper place or jump into the harbor for all some seem to care. Whatever they do they don't deserve to live here!

^ Despite the merits (or lack thereof, if one deems that to be the case) of Odurandina's posts about Martha Rd., there is one important thing you seem to be forgetting, that is Archboston is primarily about ARCHITECTURE. It has the first four letters of architecture in it's name. I joined this Forum because I thought that is what it would be about.

 

[nm88]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

Econ 101: Build housing as your population increases and your status quo maintains. (Like water seeking its level.) Failure to do this causes problems. Long-lasting failure to address this causes long-lasting problems. (Water needs to go somewhere.) Label this issue however you like, point the finger wherever you like (many share guilt), but this is the heart of Boston's problem whatever you call it. Building housing in Boston - of any price - is damn difficult.

As to the nature of some members of this forum, I will state the obvious: Our forum has changed dramatically over the years. I've made my share of mistakes in my life so I am not one to point a finger at any one. But I will say this: The members I used to admire who contributed often on this forum no longer do. That's a shame. (People like aBlarc.) Newer members who contribute often may not be as informed or inventive or as humorous as they may think they are.

I, like everyone, cheer Beeline's contributions. I might not be here at all if not for his photos.

A last word: Pause and think before you post. Lincoln said it best, "Better to be silent and thought stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." (I say that as someone who has uttered his share of stupidities.)

 

[Jouhou]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

^ Despite the merits (or lack thereof, if one deems that to be the case) of Odurandina's posts about Martha Rd., there is one important thing you seem to be forgetting, that is Archboston is primarily about ARCHITECTURE. It has the first four letters of architecture in it's name. I joined this Forum because I thought that is what it would be about.

Urban planning is another key issue for us which is why I'm hoping a mod comes along and snips this tangent into its own thread about what really causes "gentrification" and how to prevent local communities from being pushed out of their homes. It sort of is a big issue, especially in a city like Boston where even the upper middle class struggle to live in the city or its immediate urban suburbs.

We've discussed the housing crisis but it seems we aren't all on the same page about the definition of "gentrification"

 

[stefal]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

^ Despite the merits (or lack thereof, if one deems that to be the case) of Odurandina's posts about Martha Rd., there is one important thing you seem to be forgetting, that is Archboston is primarily about ARCHITECTURE. It has the first four letters of architecture in it's name. I joined this Forum because I thought that is what it would be about.

Architecture is about designing for people (or at least it should be), so a discussion about the people living in and around our structures seems like a perfectly fine conversation to have, to me at least.

 

[bakgwailo]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

Jouhou, you are missing the half of what gentrification is. Yes gentrification is caused by inefficiency in the housing market, specifically by those who are wealthy.

However, gentrification also means the displacement of long term residents and the long term existing culture due to a lack in effort and consideration of what to do with the existing residences and how to incorporate them into the new neighborhood.

This lack of consideration seems to be most prevalent when it involves long-term residents of low income, POC, and immigrants (and when I mean immigrants, I'm not including whites unless they are Jewish because we all know nobody in this country cares if the immigrant came from a European country). Don't believe me? Ever wonder why the entire North End didn't get gentrified despite being a mile from downtown, despite the fact it is alongside the waterfront, despite the fact that height limits there are capped at anywhere from 700-800ft, and despite the fact it is within access to the blue, orange, and green lines and the commuter rail? That area doesn't have one single high-rise despite the fact that the area is incredibly valuable.

That's because we see it as an abomination if we let "Little Italy" turn into anywhere Boston, while Boston piles high-rises after high-rises in neighborhoods like Chinatown that benefits few of the existing residents in that neighborhood.

And btw, this culture of not caring about other people is not just restricted to the forum. It's prevalent throughout the nation. It's part of the American culture.

And no, I'm not calling for Boston to halt all redevelopment. What I'm calling for is that we don't redevelop a parcel for a high-rise without any consideration of the existing residents (which is the same stance I have for the redevelopment of Charlestown) just because one or two people on the forum masturbates to it.

What are you even on about? The Northend is filled with yuppies/gentrified with a disneyesque street level of an Italian district. Chinatown is still more Chinese than the Northend is, and, its fate will be the same in the end if anything - full gentrify out with the street level staying the same as simply put - the restaurants all make money.

Furthermore - the most gentrified neighborhoods at this point are Southie, Charlestown, Northend, and the Southend, with JP, Rozzie, and parts of Dot - which includes a bunch of white immigrant communities (but, like you said, I guess those don't count?). Gentrification is the reversal of urban decay and flight from the city. Would you object if Blue Hill Avenue was gentrified by Jewish people moving back to it? Your entire post just seems like strange race-baiting on a subject (at least here in Boston) that is fairly complex and certainly well beyond race.

 

[KentXie]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

You just accidentally argued FOR racially segregating neighborhoods. The creation of impoverished neighborhoods full of races excluding Caucasians was literally a byproduct of culturally ingrained racism. Discuss. I don't think white people seeing other races as equals and casually moving into their neighborhoods is the problem.

No, I did not. I'm arguing that you can redevelop the a neighborhood without changing it's identity or culture by redeveloping with the input of the existing residents. You want to move in new people? Fine, don't kick out the existing residents or if you have to, include in your masterplan a new place for the existing residents. One thing I liked about the Charlestown plan is how they intend to replace the existing structures with upgraded structures for existing residents. That's an example of taking into consideration of existing residents without pricing them out. The only thing I didn't like about that development is that they have not addressed traffic concerns.

 

[kmp1284]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

No, I did not. I'm arguing that you can redevelop the a neighborhood without changing it's identity or culture by redeveloping with the input of the existing residents. You want to move in new people? Fine, don't kick out the existing residents or if you have to, include in your masterplan a new place for the existing residents. One thing I liked about the Charlestown plan is how they intend to replace the existing structures with upgraded structures for existing residents. That's an example of taking into consideration of existing residents without pricing them out. The only thing I didn't like about that development is that they have not addressed traffic concerns.

It's a housing project so they have no other choice but in the case of market rate units that's an absurd and unreasonable expectation.

 

[Rover]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

Let's be honest. If the old West End was kept intact, you can bet the one person calling for it to be demolished for high-rises would be odurandina. If he was at the helm of Boston's development in the 1950s, he would have been the one who would have called for the urban renewal. Stop pretending that he cares about the urban fabric. He wants height and that's all it matters.

Height does matter though. In a city with an extremely limited supply of buildable land relative to other places and a rabid brainless if dwindling population of NIMBY's looking to knock down every project in an effort to give meaning to their otherwise empty lives, we need the height fetish crowd to keep asking important questions. Questions like, it is really worth delaying a project for 5 years in order to cut the height of a building down 100 feet to satisfy NIMBY trolls? If nobody is pushing that point, we get a bunch of 200 foot landscrapers and an ever growing housing crisis.

 

[lapradetom]

Re: Longfellow Place (née Garden Garage Towers) | 35 Lomasney Way | West End

Architecture is about designing for people (or at least it should be), so a discussion about the people living in and around our structures seems like a perfectly fine conversation to have, to me at least.

^I agree. I am just pointing out that I think Odurandina's comments about 65 Martha Rd. are a critique of the Architectural design of 65 Martha rd. (If a bit overzealous at times), not a desire to drive out the less fortunate.