The Orange Line Thread

wicked said:
If you head out toward American Legion Highway, I'd think there would be space for a bus facility to replace Arborway. Would it pass the environmental aspects, I guess that's the question. You could sell the Arborway land, put some dense development on it and make some $$$.
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That is what the neighborhood much preferred, but they got punked when that "temporary" bus facility that was built specifically while the downtown yard trio was disrupted by renovation and construction got declared permanent with ambitious expansion plans. Surprise announcement devoid of public comment.

There is no compelling reason why it has to be there given that far larger terminals like Dudley and Harvard remote out of much more distant yards. The commuter rail yard at Readville only has half its acreage utilized with the rest being dirt piles. That's only 4 miles from FH down Hyde Park Ave., 3 miles from Mattapan down Truman Pkwy. The far larger Readville Yard 5 across the NEC on Sprague is totally unused by the T and already houses the largest school bus yard in the city.

It was a horseshit thing to sack JP with. Not to mention lousy land use with how spread out it is vs. some of the other far higher-capacity bus yards that do much more in much more compact space.
 
If they did move it to Readville, they could add a nice number of #32 runs on the shoulders of rush hour. For a route that serves a whole lot of crowded areas, it gets pretty screwed as soon as rush hour headways end.
 
once the casey comes down, the Arborway land will become far too valuable for the T to waste with bus depot. That entire area is ripe for development.
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread but a new book on the Orange Line has come out as part of the Arcadia series we all see at the bookstore.

(Yes, they are acquaintances of mine.)

JP authors write Orange Line history book
By Emily Resnevic, JP Gazette

The MBTA’s Orange Line, one of Jamaica Plain’s defining features and the product of its early political activism, is the subject of a new book by JP residents Jeremy Fox and Andrew Elder.

Their “Images of Rail: Boston’s Orange Line” is a photojournalism history of what is now a subway and light rail line.

“This is not a book you pull out at a party,” said Fox, a Boston Globe correspondent and previous Gazette contributor, with a laugh during a recent interview. But its wealth of JP photos will fascinate any local history fans, and it tells a story of a rail line that ultimately reshaped the neighborhood.
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On Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Bostons-Orange-Line-Images-Rail/dp/1467120472
 
The MBTA has recently stepped up its plans to replace its present fleet of aging 33-year-old Orange Line cars.

In addition, it also has stepped up its plans to replace its fleet of aging 43-year-old Red Line cars , and it has just announced earlier this week that it plans to replace its aging fleet of Type 7 LRV's that were made by Kinki of Osaka, Japan in the mid '80s.

All of the new vehicles will be made locally in Massachusetts and will have some of the very latest ultra-mordern features to date, and also, they will look years ahead of their designs!


The agency is also planning to add new transit buses to its present fleet, and will eventually phase out its remaining oldest fleet of aginging high-floor transit buses! :cool:
 
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The Type 7s are in the middle of a rebuild. I'd imagine the Bredas are the ones that'll go.
 
Jahvon09 said:
All of the new vehicles will be made locally in Massachusetts and will have some of the very latest ultra-modern features to date, and also, they will look years ahead of their designs!
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OK, I'll bite -- what company is qualified to build these in Massachusetts?
 
JeffDowntown said:
OK, I'll bite -- what company is qualified to build these in Massachusetts?
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Any of them, since the manufacturer tends to set up their own local factory for final assembly. The MA requirement, by the way, is totally unenforceable. Build USA requirements, which are a Federal standard on vehicle procurement projects, cannot be superseded by states demanding that assembly happen locally. A provider could make assembly in MA a feature of their proposal, but the T can't force them to do so.

What that means in practice is that manufacturers have long-established final assembly plants (NY seems to have a lot of them) in the US to meet the Federal requirements.
 
wicked said:
The Type 7s are in the middle of a rebuild. I'd imagine the Bredas are the ones that'll go.
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The just released draft of the MBTA's annual 5-year capital investment plan for FY 2015-2019 states 220 cars, which would be enough to replace both the Type 7s and the Type8s. The Type 7s will have to go with the Type 8s because the Type 7s must be capable of running in a train with a low-floor car to meet ADA, and the proposed new cars will only be able to mechanically couple to tow or push Type 7s and Type 8s, not run in trains together,
http://www.mbta.com/uploadedfiles/A...T FY15-19 MBTA Capital Investment Program.pdf

If you look at the table on page 26 of the linked PDF, you see that most of the money for these 220 cars ($732 million) is to be spent "beyond FY 18". Meanwhile, they are spending $162 million over the next 5 years for the Type 7 overhaul and almost $40 million to make reliability improvements to the Type 8s. So those 220 replacement cars will be coming in 10-15 years after the Type 7s have been overhauled and when the Type 8s are 25-35 years old.

Note that they are still planning on ordering at least 24 Type 9s for GLX in addition to the 220 future cars. The Type 9 order is supposed to finally be placed this spring, after sitting on two bids for almost 2 years. The Type 9 contract does have an option for 30 more cars. If they think the funding will line up for 220 new cars sooner rather than later, they probably won't exercise the Type 9 option. If the 220 car future order looks iffy for funding, don't be surprised if they pick-up the Type 9 option and get 54 cars.
 
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Equilibria said:
Any of them, since the manufacturer tends to set up their own local factory for final assembly. The MA requirement, by the way, is totally unenforceable. Build USA requirements, which are a Federal standard on vehicle procurement projects, cannot be superseded by states demanding that assembly happen locally. A provider could make assembly in MA a feature of their proposal, but the T can't force them to do so.

What that means in practice is that manufacturers have long-established final assembly plants (NY seems to have a lot of them) in the US to meet the Federal requirements.
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They don't plan on using Federal money on the Red, Orange, or 220-car Green orders. Its to be state money from the "Way Forward" money the legislature provided. The CIP linked above identifies which projects are to be funded 100% by state money.

The RFP for the Red/Orange car order does state that all "Buy America" rules will still be required to meet the spec, but part of the overall scoring in the evaulation of bids will be the amount of assembly work in Massachusetts. That means that Kawasaki or Bombardier setting up a "pop-up" plant in Mass. for final assembly will meet the "build in Mass" requirement, but they might not score as well if a builder like China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Industry (CSR) decides that Massachusetts would be a great place for their first U.S. plant to bid on U.S. orders and meet Buy America.
 
winstonoboogie said:
They don't plan on using Federal money on the Red, Orange, or 220-car Green orders. Its to be state money from the "Way Forward" money the legislature provided. The CIP linked above identifies which projects are to be funded 100% by state money.

The RFP for the Red/Orange car order does state that all "Buy America" rules will still be required to meet the spec, but part of the overall scoring in the evaulation of bids will be the amount of assembly work in Massachusetts. That means that Kawasaki or Bombardier setting up a "pop-up" plant in Mass. for final assembly will meet the "build in Mass" requirement, but they might not score as well if a builder like China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Industry (CSR) decides that Massachusetts would be a great place for their first U.S. plant to bid on U.S. orders and meet Buy America.
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So this could actually get really interesting, and potentially (long shot) end up with permanent manufacturing in MA.
 
wicked said:
The Type 7s are in the middle of a rebuild. I'd imagine the Bredas are the ones that'll go.
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It was on the news last week. I just read about that myself also.

The oldest ones now ARE the Type 7's, after the the agency has gotten rid of all al the Type 6's, the Boeing Vertol LRV'S, which were the first ones ever for the MBTA.

They were the ones that had proved to be particularly troublesome & problematic. The Type 7's were the least troublesome and the T became very fond of them after they were in service for the first few months.

But a number of them were involved in untimely crashes - the deadly one occuring on the D (Riverside) Line in May, 2008.

As for the Bredas, they were very problematic with derailing and other system failures, in the beginning, but I don't know about now. The T had to upgrade it track routes, spending untold millions so that the cars can use the tracks without derailing. :eek:
 
winstonoboogie said:
They don't plan on using Federal money on the Red, Orange, or 220-car Green orders. Its to be state money from the "Way Forward" money the legislature provided. The CIP linked above identifies which projects are to be funded 100% by state money.

The RFP for the Red/Orange car order does state that all "Buy America" rules will still be required to meet the spec, but part of the overall scoring in the evaulation of bids will be the amount of assembly work in Massachusetts. That means that Kawasaki or Bombardier setting up a "pop-up" plant in Mass. for final assembly will meet the "build in Mass" requirement, but they might not score as well if a builder like China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Industry (CSR) decides that Massachusetts would be a great place for their first U.S. plant to bid on U.S. orders and meet Buy America.
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Kawasaki is also the co chosen by Washington, DC's WMATA to build between 300 to about 435 new rapid transit cars, to replace it's oldest fleet of rail cars. :cool:
 
If I were manufacturing transit vehicles, I'd put my factory somewhere on the MA-NY border
 
winstonoboogie said:
The just released draft of the MBTA's annual 5-year capital investment plan for FY 2015-2019 states 220 cars, which would be enough to replace both the Type 7s and the Type8s. The Type 7s will have to go with the Type 8s because the Type 7s must be capable of running in a train with a low-floor car to meet ADA, and the proposed new cars will only be able to mechanically couple to tow or push Type 7s and Type 8s, not run in trains together,
http://www.mbta.com/uploadedfiles/A...T FY15-19 MBTA Capital Investment Program.pdf

If you look at the table on page 26 of the linked PDF, you see that most of the money for these 220 cars ($732 million) is to be spent "beyond FY 18". Meanwhile, they are spending $162 million over the next 5 years for the Type 7 overhaul and almost $40 million to make reliability improvements to the Type 8s. So those 220 replacement cars will be coming in 10-15 years after the Type 7s have been overhauled and when the Type 8s are 25-35 years old.

Note that they are still planning on ordering at least 24 Type 9s for GLX in addition to the 220 future cars. The Type 9 order is supposed to finally be placed this spring, after sitting on two bids for almost 2 years. The Type 9 contract does have an option for 30 more cars. If they think the funding will line up for 220 new cars sooner rather than later, they probably won't exercise the Type 9 option. If the 220 car future order looks iffy for funding, don't be surprised if they pick-up the Type 9 option and get 54 cars.
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Thanks for the correction, winston.

I know the timing is off regarding funding, but I don't understand the point of a 24-car order only. I know they need the new cars, but still. I'd imagine the cost to maintain that small of a lot will be much higher than average.
 
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