Waterside Place 1A | 505 Congress Street | Seaport

Re: Waterside Place

This is basically how I feel, but cue several forumers arguing that the area is actually "packed with people" because of a couple waterfront restaurants and some lost conventioneers.

It's always busy at the whiskey priest and that new waterfront development.
 
Re: Waterside Place

If the planned development gets done it will be the same mixed use that was by all means successful for the Back Bay: residential, office, retail, hotel and a convention center. Major tenants have signed leases for new and current buildings (PwC, Goodwin Proctor, Battery Ventures) and the BRA appears to be dialing back its overemphasis on hotels (witness the sausage parcel 180). It doesn't seem fair to knock the Seaport in isolation, I think you need to at least include Fort Point. Fort Point is and will be to the Seaport what Comm. Ave was and is to the High Spine of Back Bay.

Couple the above with the fact that its on the water and has extremely easy access to north-south and east-west highways, the airport, and I don't know how one can claim that the neighborhood is DOA. I'd argue that there is now a bit of inevitability to its build out as a mixed use neighborhood that only started when Vertex signed an LOI with Fallon in 2011.

Picking apart an ugly building like Waterside is fair game (I agree its disappointing), but lets not forget the vaunted Back Bay has plenty of shit buildings (e.g., all of the Prudential Center buildings other than the Pru and 111 Huntington, the Colonnade Hotel, the Westin Copley, that mid-rise apartment building next to the mid-town motel) that are overlooked b/c, well, they have already been built and are literally and figuratively overshadowed by the gems.

I can't say I'm without bias, look at my handle for pete's sake. But when the build out is complete and the buildings aren't taken in isolation I think the general feeling about the Seaport will be positive and not a total loss like, say, the West End.
 
Re: Waterside Place

It's always busy at the whiskey priest and that new waterfront development.

This is what I've always seen. I was even down there Sunday for lunch, and there was a steady amount of foot traffic from The Crab to Harpoon.
 
Re: Waterside Place

If the planned development gets done it will be the same mixed use that was by all means successful for the Back Bay: residential, office, retail, hotel and a convention center. Major tenants have signed leases for new and current buildings (PwC, Goodwin Proctor, Battery Ventures) and the BRA appears to be dialing back its overemphasis on hotels (witness the sausage parcel 180). It doesn't seem fair to knock the Seaport in isolation, I think you need to at least include Fort Point. Fort Point is and will be to the Seaport what Comm. Ave was and is to the High Spine of Back Bay.

Couple the above with the fact that its on the water and has extremely easy access to north-south and east-west highways, the airport, and I don't know how one can claim that the neighborhood is DOA. I'd argue that there is now a bit of inevitability to its build out as a mixed use neighborhood that only started when Vertex signed an LOI with Fallon in 2011.

Picking apart an ugly building like Waterside is fair game (I agree its disappointing), but lets not forget the vaunted Back Bay has plenty of shit buildings (e.g., all of the Prudential Center buildings other than the Pru and 111 Huntington, the Colonnade Hotel, the Westin Copley, that mid-rise apartment building next to the mid-town motel) that are overlooked b/c, well, they have already been built and are literally and figuratively overshadowed by the gems.

I can't say I'm without bias, look at my handle for pete's sake. But when the build out is complete and the buildings aren't taken in isolation I think the general feeling about the Seaport will be positive and not a total loss like, say, the West End.

Agree with Backbay has some ugly buildings for godsake the PRU looks like the Darth Vader building.

Maybe youre right about once the buildout it will be more positive than negative but throughout history the Backbay has been a destination spot & very friendly to foot traffic.

You have to ride the Silverline bus to get into your West End.
 
Re: Waterside Place

^ On certain days, Back Bay Green Line riders would kill for the Seaport Silver Line bus... just sayin' ;)
 
Re: Waterside Place

Yes, when I was packed on a overcrowded bus bumping along at 3mph through a leaking tunnel last Friday night I thought, I bet those Green Line riders in the Back Bay are so jelly right now.
 
Re: Waterside Place

Yes, when I was packed on a overcrowded bus bumping along at 3mph through a leaking tunnel last Friday night I thought, I bet those Green Line riders in the Back Bay are so jelly right now.

It was a sarcastic play on the Green Line's reliability. Jeez...

Look at my username, do you really think I prefer the Silver Line?

Of course...

when I was packed on a overcrowded TRAIN bumping along at 3mph through a leaking tunnel

Often describes the Green Line ;)
 
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Re: Waterside Place

At least the bus was packed..... its always referred to as underutilized.
 
Re: Waterside Place

How you could give a death sentence to a neighborhood that's not even half finished is beyond me. There's a lot of foot traffic between Whiskey Priest and the Harpoon Brewer, AKA, the part of the Seaport that's more or less finished, and it's not crowded at all in the rest of the Seaport, AKA the parts that aren't finished. Why would that be surprising, let alone disturbing?

I walked through the areas that WERE developed...dead, wide streets fit for trucks and traffic and sidewalks lined with blank windows and locked emergency exits. Sure there were people at the bars and restaurants, but some of us don't frequent bars and can't afford the restaurants. There doesn't seem to be any space available in COMPLETED areas for retail shops and smaller businesses that give life to an area. Nor are there any residential areas (yet) where corner stores and coffee shops can proliferate. No, this entire district is a failure for pedestrians IMO. Downtown Houston transplanted to Boston, only the architecture in Houston is MUCH more interesting than at the seaport thus far (and yes, that's damning with faint praise).
 
Re: Waterside Place

I walked through the areas that WERE developed...dead, wide streets fit for trucks and traffic and sidewalks lined with blank windows and locked emergency exits. Sure there were people at the bars and restaurants, but some of us don't frequent bars and can't afford the restaurants. There doesn't seem to be any space available in COMPLETED areas for retail shops and smaller businesses that give life to an area. Nor are there any residential areas (yet) where corner stores and coffee shops can proliferate. No, this entire district is a failure for pedestrians IMO. Downtown Houston transplanted to Boston, only the architecture in Houston is MUCH more interesting than at the seaport thus far (and yes, that's damning with faint praise).

Have you walked down congress street in Fort Point? Seaport Blvd and Congress are extremely walkable and anything but dead... And this is with almost no residential. In a year or two I'm pretty sure your opinion will change.
 
Re: Waterside Place

To be fair to the Padre's assessment. Congress St. in Fort Point is existing and 100 years old. Of course it's nice, walkable, and human scaled... until you get to the LAZ lot.

Seaport Blvd. at this point is walkable sure. It's has 40 foot wide sidewalks. Hard to not be able to walk on that even after drinking a fifth of Jameson at the Priest. It is however, dead at most hours. It's quite a ways from Empire to the Priest. An empty dead stretch. The Massport parcels can feel vibrant at certain times. Nice weather times when things are doing.

Now, to be fair to the area. It ain't done as has been said. It will be a success. I will guarantee that. But, it will not reach its potential, and that is the real crime. The area will not allow it to fail in the long run, but the planning and development are so subpar to what it should or could be. Some are and will be really good developments, but others will be over sized, under street friendly, and will generally hold the area back for years from being what it could be. Over the following decades, some of the worst offenders will be polished to better suit the area and the people using it, but it will be polishing a turd and postponing some of the success the area could have immediately.

Overall I think that's really what a lot of the complaining is about in the area.Throwing something up for the quick buck and then letting the sons pay for and correct the father's sins.
 
Re: Waterside Place

Everyone's going to bitch about the Seaport like they did with the Greenway. But now the Greenway's trees are getting larger and everyone says, "Oh, that's nice! :)" So just wait for the buildings to fill in.

Personally I don't really care how nice it gets, just the fact that it could very easily have always been better had the area's development been competently managed from the start. Same for the Greenway.
 
Re: Waterside Place

Nor are there any residential areas (yet) where corner stores and coffee shops can proliferate.

Seems like the answer is in your own complaint.

Everyone's going to bitch about the Seaport like they did with the Greenway. But now the Greenway's trees are getting larger and everyone says, "Oh, that's nice! :)" So just wait for the buildings to fill in.

Seriously. Half this board would have complained about the Back Bay while it was getting filled in. NO ONE GOES THERE. IT'S JUST A SWAMP. WHAT A FAILURE.
 
Re: Waterside Place

Seems like the answer is in your own complaint.



Seriously. Half this board would have complained about the Back Bay while it was getting filled in. NO ONE GOES THERE. IT'S JUST A SWAMP. WHAT A FAILURE.

What is success & failure? In my eyes it depends on how much money was spent to make an area succesful.

30 Billion dollar bill for the Greenway with ongoing problems is a hefty bill to call success.
Is the area better without the Green Monster? You bet your ass. Will the area get better overtime. YES........ the Greenway as an asset for the city in 100 Years it will be well worth it.

The Greenway is located in a great location runs right up the middle from Outer Downtown to the Waterfront with easy transit access. They could put mostly anything there and it will be successful. Unlimited amounts of foot-traffic around the area between Haymarket, North End, Aquarium, Childrens Musuem,

The Seaport Development the one success is the restaurants on the waterfront which was a no-brainer. I'm just not sure why would you ever got to the Seaport unless you worked, lived or in-town for a convention all the action is in the Backbay or back to Downtown.

The Seaport might need a centralized park to make it appealing.
 
Re: Waterside Place

Where on earth is this $30B price tag for the Greenway coming from? A liberal total for the Big Dig?
 
Re: Waterside Place

The Seaport Development the one success is the restaurants on the waterfront which was a no-brainer. I'm just not sure why would you ever got to the Seaport unless you worked, lived or in-town for a convention all the action is in the Backbay or back to Downtown.

Add to the Seapot the Bay State cruise lines, ICA, Bank of America Pavillion and various Harpoonfests throughout the year...and you've got far more going on than you'll ever find Downtown.
 
Re: Waterside Place

Seems like the answer is in your own complaint.



Seriously. Half this board would have complained about the Back Bay while it was getting filled in. NO ONE GOES THERE. IT'S JUST A SWAMP. WHAT A FAILURE.

+1

There are three coffee shops withing one block on Congress Street. Flour, Bee's Knees and Barrington. Oh and a Dunkin' Donuts. And Metro. So five.

Walking down Seaport Boulevard and condemning the area doesn't make any sense. The entire Seaport Square development has barely started its first phase. Fan Pier is ready to go on two more buildings and Pier 4 has begun. Channel Center is a go. The sausage parcel is happening. The Convention Center expansion is going to result in one possibly two HQ hotels. A lot of residential is being built right now on D Street between Summer and West First, and a lot more is planned at all corners. Could go on but I'd be stating what already has been posted here and elsewhere.

It's just not reasonable to write the area off at this stage of the game.
 
Re: Waterside Place

Let's just start rounding up and saying "$50B". That's a nice round number.

"Yeah, the guy in the $7,000 suit is going to hold the elevator for the guy who doesn't make that in three months. COME ON!"
 

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