What to do about Government Center

[Ron Newman]

The original Federal Reserve bank building still stands as a hotel. The later addition is what was taken down.

 

[eljusticiero67]

trafalgar Square works not just because of its pretty backdrop and the doodads in the middle - the fountain and sculptures. It also works because it's a natural center. Various important roads and vistas converge there; there's a major rail station adjacent, etc.

its a natural center for the same reason why leicester square is a natural center 3 blocks up northeast and the same reason why picadilly circus is a natural center 3 blocks northwest... its because they simply exist... and people want to be there. and people do spend time in all those places even though they are all "competing" public spaces within walking distance.

there a million random roads and convergences that have nearby rail stations, tube stops etc. in london. but they built it, and built it well, and so they came.

 

[NJBostonFan]

How about extending Hanover Street across Congress Street and City Hall Plaza to connect with Cambridge Street. That partially restores the grid and it could be done without any severe disruption, other than demolishing part of the barren City Hall Plaza and improving it slightly. After that, we could probably build Hefland's idea for a New City Hall and replace the current version and CHP.

And maybe after that's done, we can demolish 1-2-3 Center Plaza, and probably attempt to rebuild the street grid to Scollay Square and construct buildings similar to what was originally there.

Does this idea look good?

 

[Lurker]

City Hall should remain along with Center Plaza. Both buildings do however require massive rehabs. It's the plaza and the bordering JFK building which badly need to be replaced. Reconstituting Hanover Street and some of the other lost streets with appropriately dense development tight to City Hall would make a world of difference.

However, I expect some trend following academic bullshit that will age rather badly to be built, over budget and far behind schedule, instead.

 

[datadyne007]

City Hall should remain along with Center Plaza. Both buildings do however require massive rehabs. It's the plaza and the bordering JFK building which badly need to be replaced.

I completely agree with you on everything you've said. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one lobbying to not demolish City Hall and Uno-Dos-Tres Center Plaza.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

I think 123CP just needs to be fixed, rather than eliminated. The Cambridge/Tremont sidewalk works pretty well, no? It's the back side which needs a real street, not a parking-lot-slash-little-known-shortcut and some restaraunts/bars/etc (I'm not sure retail would have much pull even with through traffic).


Anyways, I think Cornhill should be reinstated between Cambridge/State and Washington St (extending Washington Street just a little north of State again). Also bring back Brattle St from Cambridge to Congress. RETAIN THE PLAZA BETWEEN BRATTLE AND CORNHILL (however, improve it. Not just some void brick expanse, possibly a green space, but preferably easily navigable as it will be highly trafficed) and EXTEND IT over Congress St (essentially a really wide pedestrian bridge) to join up with the plaza behind 60 State. This way, pedestrians don't have to fight Congress St traffic, it could make for a pleasant walk if executed correctly, and a high capacity pedestrian corridor between Quincy Market area and Scollay. The freedom trail could be routed through it (however, that would miss the Old State House, but other than that, it'd be nifty). EVERYTHING ELSE: GRID AND DEVELOPMENT.

 

[Ron Newman]

That bridge has been proposed for many years, but not built for a variety of reasons. To me, the main reason not to build it is that it would cut off the view between two historic buildings, the Old State House and Faneuil Hall.

Instead of bridging over Congress Street, narrow it to two lanes, which already works fine south of State Street.

 

[NJBostonFan]

I'd reconstruct Congress Street and narrow it to 4 lanes and remove the median.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

That bridge has been proposed for many years, but not built for a variety of reasons. To me, the main reason not to build it is that it would cut off the view between two historic buildings, the Old State House and Faneuil Hall.

Instead of bridging over Congress Street, narrow it to two lanes, which already works fine south of State Street.

Although I full heartily agree that it should be 2 lanes each direction at most, I don't think a bridge would destroy much of any real view...

 

[Mayor Menino's Crohn's]

How about extending Hanover Street across Congress Street and City Hall Plaza to connect with Cambridge Street. That partially restores the grid and it could be done without any severe disruption, other than demolishing part of the barren City Hall Plaza and improving it slightly. After that, we could probably build Hefland's idea for a New City Hall and replace the current version and CHP.

And maybe after that's done, we can demolish 1-2-3 Center Plaza, and probably attempt to rebuild the street grid to Scollay Square and construct buildings similar to what was originally there.

Does this idea look good?

This idea of extending Hanover to Congress is mammoth in the undertaking and would result in court battles for years...


With that said, that rendering is gorgeous. Pie in the sky? Maybe. But just gorgeous never the less. This is me being honest. Redesign City Hall by giving it some TUSCAN charm. A clocktower is a good idea.

No horse racing in the plaza though. It's as mean as bullfighting.

 

[gravedigger4444]

A redesign of the exterior of the JFK building and perhaps adding some kind of top to it would be nice...

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Government Center is "a really large roof, essentially":

Bicycle flow:

Pedestrian flow:

Proposal A:

Proposal A | Proposal B:

 

[datadyne007]

So the response to "Greening Gov't Center" is planting a bunch of trees?

Your notes are great and much appreciated, but this is making me so frustrated. I want LANDSCAPING. I want grassy areas. I want actual circulation paths. I could plop a couple green circles on a map of City Hall Plaza and call it green as well. It's got so much potential if they just rip up some of that awful brick and put actual landscaping where tourists and locals alike can enjoy a book or their lunch on the grass under a tree.

 

[czsz]

^ We have a lot of places like that within a two block radius that are already empty [cough] Greenway [/cough] plus the Common, Christopher Columbus Park, and umpteen other public spaces not far away.

No more goddamn parks! The failure of this space is only partly due to its design; the rest is a result of an overabundance of undefined open space. It would be empty whether there was grass or not.

 

[datadyne007]

^ We have a lot of places like that within a two block radius that are already empty [cough] Greenway [/cough] plus the Common, Christopher Columbus Park, and umpteen other public spaces not far away.

No more goddamn parks! The failure of this space is only partly due to its design; the rest is a result of an overabundance of undefined open space. It would be empty whether there was grass or not.

It's such a critical throughway though. Working in Faneuil Hall Marketplace, I make the pilgrimage from Gov't Center, across the Plaza, down the stairs and across Congress every day. In the summer, the same circulation is occurring, but its multiplied by thousands. It's also a miserable place to be in the summer. I know you can do the same activities in the Common or on the Greenway, but if the mobile Food Court comes to fruition, some grassy areas with shade would really help it be successful. If anything, the tourists will eat up that space, exploring the "City Hall park."

 

[gooseberry]

 

[blade_bltz]

It's such a critical throughway though. Working in Faneuil Hall Marketplace, I make the pilgrimage from Gov't Center, across the Plaza, down the stairs and across Congress every day. In the summer, the same circulation is occurring, but its multiplied by thousands. It's also a miserable place to be in the summer. I know you can do the same activities in the Common or on the Greenway, but if the mobile Food Court comes to fruition, some grassy areas with shade would really help it be successful. If anything, the tourists will eat up that space, exploring the "City Hall park."

Well I agree that the T stop gives Govt Center an inherent advantage over the Greenway as a location for a park. This makes me even angrier at the latter's existence. But given that we're stuck with it, there's no reason to dilute the city even further with yet more grass. You can walk to the Greenway to read a book and have lunch, no? Isn't it closer to your workplace anyway?

And, in general, are City Hall area employees so lazy they can't walk an extra 500 feet to get their lunchtime fix of grass? Or maybe everyone just realizes how shit the Greenway is...

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Perfect.

 

[Lurker]

Gooseberry just drew for free what Utile probably got paid a substantial amount to flub.

The analysis is weak. The pedestrian flow diagrams are a bunch of bullshit. The bicycle circulation diagram is bullshit. The potential infiltration areas diagram, unlike Gooseberry's site configuration, actually WALL OFF THE ENTRANCE TO CITY HALL FROM THE PLAZA WITH TREES.

The brevity of the presentation, at least graphically, leaves a lot to be desired. Really this is it? A few shitty tri-colour diagrams? How much time did they actually spend on this manure? No one can do napkin sketches anymore?

"Open space is an asset"

No jackasses, have you not been paying attention for the last half century? The open space is a blight that everyone detests. Urbanity and a reason for people to actually occupy the area around city hall would be an "asset".

 

[datadyne007]

Well I agree that the T stop gives Govt Center an inherent advantage over the Greenway as a location for a park. This makes me even angrier at the latter's existence. But given that we're stuck with it, there's no reason to dilute the city even further with yet more grass. You can walk to the Greenway to read a book and have lunch, no? Isn't it closer to your workplace anyway?

And, in general, are City Hall area employees so lazy they can't walk an extra 500 feet to get their lunchtime fix of grass? Or maybe everyone just realizes how shit the Greenway is...

I almost always stop and get Starbucks, Dunkin, or Burger King. I just think it would be nice to have a place where it could be enjoyed on the plaza. I wasn't talking about me specifically having lunch there though, but it's got the potential for everyone. I'm not saying to have Common-like meandering paths, but a couple grassy areas off the side of a main-throughway wouldn't really hurt. I think that circulation path that I described should be the key focus and should be a defined walking path. I'm also not a huge fan of the steps and I'd prefer a sloped gradient of some sort. It's so awkward having to go down then up without using that bs "bike route" they found.

Gooseberry just drew for free what Utile probably got paid a substantial amount to flub.

The analysis is weak. The pedestrian flow diagrams are a bunch of bullshit. The bicycle circulation diagram is bullshit. The potential infiltration areas diagram, unlike Gooseberry's site configuration, actually WALL OFF THE ENTRANCE TO CITY HALL FROM THE PLAZA WITH TREES.

The brevity of the presentation, at least graphically, leaves a lot to be desired. Really this is it? A few shitty tri-colour diagrams? How much time did they actually spend on this manure? No one can do napkin sketches anymore?

"Open space is an asset"

No jackasses, have you not been paying attention for the last half century? The open space is a blight that everyone detests. Urbanity and a reason for people to actually occupy the area around city hall would be an "asset".

I've seen better analyses from Sophomore Studios. That was another thing that really disappointed me. Utile is also responsible for the uninspired Harbor Island Pavilions.