Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

kmp1284 said:
The problem with viewing each neighborhood in a vacuum is that you completely ignore the negative impact of something in one neighborhood on another.
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That's why I don't favor the "waiver" approach. I favor a comprehensive review and revision of the shadow law that designates zones for certain types of development. The FOPG (and others') fears are more along the lines of creep and encroachment - I don't think anyone is that concerned about the shadow from this one tower. The are rightly concerned about build-by-waiver culture that renders any thoughtful strategic preservation attempts useless. I share their concern about build-by-waiver.

But the point is this tower is amidst a cluster of other towers that were casting their shadows before the '90's era law. There are few/no other buildable parcels in that specific area of the city, so their encroachment concerns are more relevant to other areas than this spot.

Let's create an integrated plan that actually makes sense.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

617 said:
How did millenium tower skirt this law? Using the term law loosely here
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Not sure why. You may not like it, but it's pretty clearly the law. Has been for 25 years.

Anyway, Millennium Tower apparently is within the boundaries of the district where some shadow is allowed under the Boston Common shadow bank. Winthrop Square is not, and so has tougher limits.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

MT got built because The Tom Menino.

Love him. Hate him 3 times each day. Menino was the balls.



btw, i need more likes up on the Globe!! :)
 
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Sicilian said:
I don't expect you to waiver. But to be clear since you're echoing Millennium's latest numbers...

36 minutes is stated as "average" measure of shadow over the course of a year. As I understand that methodology was introduced only today in Leung's column.
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Understood. I read it as average, but didn't feel the need to include. I was being rough while using rough numbers. I do feel no need to waiver on this one however.

Your input is some of my favorite on this site, although not always in agreeance with my own. Who would want a forum of all like minded folks.

Since, you stated earlier in the parking garage thread about not coming around much anymore because of a lot of the blockheadedness around here (my words not yours). I hope you'll reconsider, and start contributing more again.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Man about town said:
Not sure why. You may not like it, but it's pretty clearly the law. Has been for 25 years.

Anyway, Millennium Tower apparently is within the boundaries of the district where some shadow is allowed under the Boston Common shadow bank. Winthrop Square is not, and so has tougher limits.
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And, like any law, when/if there is fault found with it, you amend or rewrite it. Legislation passed trying to do the most good, can often have unforeseen side affects that negatively impact others (and more than it originally intended to protect). Sometimes it takes as many as 25 years to see some of these flaws.

We support one law as if it was the only law ever written that was perfect, when that one law supports our point of view or agenda.

All laws are not created equally, but many of our best in this country, have been changed multiple times. How many of our laws would have simply sank into the swamp if we never built a fourth one that stood up?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

SeamusMcFly said:
And, like any law, when/if there is fault found with it, you amend or rewrite it. Legislation passed trying to do the most good, can often have unforeseen side affects that negatively impact others (and more than it originally intended to protect). Sometimes it takes as many as 25 years to see some of these flaws.

We support one law as if it was the only law ever written that was perfect, when that one law supports our point of view or agenda.

All laws are not created equally, but many of our best in this country, have been changed multiple times. How many of our laws would have simply sank into the swamp if we never built a fourth one that stood up?
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Agreed. And looks like it'll get a robust debate, soon.
I was just pointing out that the Shadow Law is, in fact, a law, one that was appropriately created and much more clearly spelled out than many of the unwritten rules that often guide development decisions around here.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I wish the shadow law established and documented a "cone" for height limits around the Common / Public Garden, similar to the FAA map for Logan. That'd make everything so much more transparent and clear.

I guess someone could use shadow simulation software and create a 3D mapping themselves... Any takers?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

JohnAKeith said:
I'm sorry that four hundred years of Boston history is getting in the way of your fetish for a 700' tall building.
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What does 400 years of Boston history have to do with a 25 year old law about shadows? Your comment is a total non-sequitur.

It's not like they're proposing to dig up Paul Revere's grave and build the tower over the Granary Burial Ground.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

FenwayResident said:
What does 400 years of Boston history have to do with a 25 year old law about shadows? Your comment is a total non-sequitur.

It's not like they're proposing to dig up Paul Revere's grave and build the tower over the Granary Burial Ground.
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Through Adams in there and the true loss would be that the Beantown Pub would need to figure out a new shtick.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I hate to do this, but by the time this building is built, "shadows" will be moot. The entire region will have warmed, and the "horticulture", will have changed. Sadly, in 30 years, Bostonians will WANT shadows.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Huge Yimby support; including a lot of young people sporting their Let Boston Rise pins at tonight's get together. The mood was overwhelmingly, convincingly festive and positive. Even Galer was friendly.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Just out of curiosity, what is "let boston rise" and who is organizing it? I never thought the Yimby's had a unified platform...
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Actually, they are. The tower will throw shadows on the Central Burial Ground, sweetie.

FenwayResident said:
What does 400 years of Boston history have to do with a 25 year old law about shadows? Your comment is a total non-sequitur.

It's not like they're proposing to dig up Paul Revere's grave and build the tower over the Granary Burial Ground.
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

JohnAKeith said:
Actually, they are. The tower will throw shadows on the Central Burial Ground, sweetie.
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Feeling more ornery than usual, are we?

There's a case to made against a waiver and forcing the legislature to commit to the current law or amending it, but come on, this is Massachusetts. The legislature will avoid taking a stand as often as possible.

On the snarky side; I hardly think the dead are going miss the sun in the closed-to-the-public CBG...
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

bigpicture7 said:
Just out of curiosity, what is "let boston rise" and who is organizing it? I never thought the Yimby's had a unified platform...
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i'll find out. Damn, it's no wonder the Building Department picked these guys in a landslide. This is how you do it. Take what a bunch of nimby think is a meeting.... Set up lots of great display stations. and change it into a party. Bring a bunch of hot chicks and food, and never give the bastards a microphone.
 
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

It was pretty epic how it was this giant "open house" (read: party) on an abandoned/gutted floor of 101 Federal.

Via Theresa Polhemus:

Teresa Polhemus @tpolhemus
Great turnout at Winthrop Square Meeting. We're using new meeting format: open house. Informing people in a more personal way. @BostonPlans

https://twitter.com/tpolhemus/status/817160695678648320

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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

These (BPDA meetings as open houses with different areas for different disciplines) have not been going over well with neighbors on most projects. If it seemed to go over well last night its only because Millennium filled it with supporters.

Its a great idea in theory, give people up close specific access to each discipline so they can ask their direct questions and get a direct answer. It would work if, you know, people actually wanted to have a discussion.

But in most cases the public leaves feeling 'they werent heard' because, of course, all they really want to do is a have a bitch fest and gang up together.

The projects Ive seen this with so far have had to have a 2nd public meeting that was a standard presentation followed by Q&A from the crowd.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

There is no concept of a NIMBY at play here, because this in the heart of the Financial District.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

type001 said:
There is no concept of a NIMBY at play here, because this in the heart of the Financial District.
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They're just NIBs then. (Not In Boston)
 
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