Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

[DZH22]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I don't know why they don't just expand the FiDi more towards North Station. No issues with shadowing the common, and less FAA restrictions. That's why I was fuming when BP lowered the height so substantially on their residential tower.

What are the issues over there that prevent more substantial development? I think the lowrise portion of the JFK building would be a good spot for a massive redevelopment. It would be something to look at once the Congress Street Garage project is done.

I'd also like to bulldoze most of Charles River Park and rebuild a denser, taller grid there, but that's a pipe dream.

 

[Rover]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Honestly, if Boston was a bigger and more attractive city for corporations, had the capability to expand their transit system, and didn't have the Seaport fulfilling all the office space demands, I would suggest Boston build a new CBD in the South Bay area and line it with new train stations. FiDi is incredibly hampered by the nearby parks and waterfront. South Bay doesn't have that issue.

Ummm...this doesn't make any sense. Boston is the 6th largest CSA in the country and doing one of the better jobs of attracting "knowledge based economy" corporations. If they prefer to locate in the Seaport I've never understood the problem with that. Once the Seaport is built out perhaps the city can look further afield to the Widett Circle area for example. In the meantime why not build out downtown + seaport over the next 20 years.

 

[KentXie]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Ummm...this doesn't make any sense. Boston is the 6th largest CSA in the country and doing one of the better jobs of attracting "knowledge based economy" corporations. If they prefer to locate in the Seaport I've never understood the problem with that. Once the Seaport is built out perhaps the city can look further afield to the Widett Circle area for example. In the meantime why not build out downtown + seaport over the next 20 years.

I made the comment more in comparison to big cities like NYC, Chicago, and LA where the city is large enough to support multiple CBDs. If Boston had almost the economic might of the aforementioned cities, then the city could support a 3rd CBD (outside of FiDi and Back Bay) at South Bay. In regards to the FAA limit, I think this is more of the radar issue which can be remedied as South Bay lies in between the runway flight paths, not directly in front of them. Train yard isn't a problem as long as you're not planning to build on top of them. The area is heavily industrial and thus a lot of them can be built upon without needing to build on top of air rights.

Sorry for being off-topic. I'll stop here.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

South bay has the FAA and train yard issue which is even tougher.

Exactly. I love how people try to pretend that South Bay is some kind of "free" open space.

It is open air, because it is the busiest rail yard in the City (South and West Commuter Rail, Amtrak, Red Line), and the MBTA bus repair and CNG refueling depot, and the City maintenance vehicle fleet HQ. All essential uses to make the city operate.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I don't know why they don't just expand the FiDi more towards North Station. No issues with shadowing the common, and less FAA restrictions. That's why I was fuming when BP lowered the height so substantially on their residential tower.

What are the issues over there that prevent more substantial development? I think the lowrise portion of the JFK building would be a good spot for a massive redevelopment. It would be something to look at once the Congress Street Garage project is done.

I'd also like to bulldoze most of Charles River Park and rebuild a denser, taller grid there, but that's a pipe dream.

Most? no. A few buildings in Charles River Park certainly merit redevelopment... But once again, even taking down a 10 story apt bldg, the $$$ in Boston forces you to build tall. Shadows + a lack of forebearance about anything going 'that way' in this part of the City once again come into play.

On some sites, it could expand to a discussion about shadows being cast upon Cambridge. And while this is the last frontier, you can be sure the fight over shadows put on Beacon Hill, the West End, hundreds of historical buildings and the Esplanade will become an even more bitter fight than the one we're currently having now over the Common, PG, Copley, etc.

The BRA gave ground on 1 Congress (like 110' on one tower and like 90' on the other). The project's new name might offer some clues as to why.

Going out past just a few years, the City's future highrise planning doesn't look promising. That fact alone wouldn't be so troubling, if we could have just done better planning and built significantly taller instead of squandering so many parcels during the Flynn/Menino years. It has come back to bite us.

 

[Hubman]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Ugh, shut up. Go move to the burbs.

Please don't say stuff like that, even if you disagree with the person. Why don't you explain to him why he's wrong?

 

[bakgwailo]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I made the comment more in comparison to big cities like NYC, Chicago, and LA where the city is large enough to support multiple CBDs. If Boston had almost the economic might of the aforementioned cities, then the city could support a 3rd CBD (outside of FiDi and Back Bay) at South Bay. In regards to the FAA limit, I think this is more of the radar issue which can be remedied as South Bay lies in between the runway flight paths, not directly in front of them. Train yard isn't a problem as long as you're not planning to build on top of them. The area is heavily industrial and thus a lot of them can be built upon without needing to build on top of air rights.

Sorry for being off-topic. I'll stop here.

Boston does have multiple CBDs as you have said - with one in the Back Bay and our main one in Downtown. One could argue that the Seaport is emerging as a 3rd. Not too bad for a city with only 48sqr mi of land vs the massiveness of Chicago, LA, and NYC. Of course, if we open up into metro/urban areas (and not just the city limits), then I think one could argue we already have at least an existing third CBD in Cambridge.

 

[West]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Fourth: Longwood

(assuming we're talking about job centers rather than traditional "central business districts")

or fifth if you're counting:
1 Downtown
2 Back Bay
3 Seaport
4 Cambridge / Kendall
5 Longwood

maybe those last two should be reversed

 

[Man about town]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Boston does have multiple CBDs as you have said - with one in the Back Bay and our main one in Downtown. One could argue that the Seaport is emerging as a 3rd. Not too bad for a city with only 48sqr mi of land vs the massiveness of Chicago, LA, and NYC. Of course, if we open up into metro/urban areas (and not just the city limits), then I think one could argue we already have at least an existing third CBD in Cambridge.

Financial District
Back Bay
Seaport
Kendall
All within walking - or at least a short T ride - of each other.
We do OK.

Also: Nearly all the tall buildings actually getting built in this cycle are residential. That's where the demand is for height these days, not office.

 

[Rover]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Going out past just a few years, the City's future highrise planning doesn't look promising. That fact alone wouldn't be so troubling, if we could have just done better planning and built significantly taller instead of squandering so many parcels during the Flynn/Menino years. It has come back to bite us.

Agree and disagree here. I think some of you previous commentary about how the city should concentrate on getting the proposed high rises built is correct. For this cycle getting SSX, Harbor Towers Garage and Winthrop Square added to MT, Dalton St, North Station and Haymarket would be a big win.

Not so sure we're out of skyscraper space afterwards though. Seems there's still a lot of low rises downtown that could get the Russia Wharf treatment (folding new building into existing historical architecture).

I made the comment more in comparison to big cities like NYC, Chicago, and LA where the city is large enough to support multiple CBDs. If Boston had almost the economic might of the aforementioned cities, then the city could support a 3rd CBD (outside of FiDi and Back Bay) at South Bay. In regards to the FAA limit, I think this is more of the radar issue which can be remedied as South Bay lies in between the runway flight paths, not directly in front of them. Train yard isn't a problem as long as you're not planning to build on top of them. The area is heavily industrial and thus a lot of them can be built upon without needing to build on top of air rights.

Sorry for being off-topic. I'll stop here.

Okay, I get it now.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Everyones skipping Cambridge and I know why but in reality thats another CBD. Not as far as Bostons concerned-even though it is, but weird antiquated borders aside as far as the states concerned thats another CBD in the area. If you look at it as how many are in this small area of Massachusetts its there and its important.

Back to the shadow issue if you watch the video its in one sliver of the common. Not saying its good or bad but itd be more important to see whos in this exact area of the common vs the entire common at 7am..as its not going to affect the whole common.

Also its not as noticeable on google earth but if you drive or walk through downtown I can count at least 5 open lots...whether theyre for parking or something else that can be developed and have not had a single proposal yet. Theres more than that too like the parking lots around north station etc. Then when you move up the ladder through small demo's to Atlantic wharfs and up to full demos theres a lot in between.

 

[Scalziand]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I never heard one peep about shadows.

You weren't listening. There was one lady complaining that the shadows would kill her cat.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

There are no fewer than 962 posts about shadows in this thread. We'll get a few more. 5 years from now, they'll be doing year round time-elapsed shadow videos from a camera mounted on MT or 115 Winthrop after this son bitch goes up, and we'll get a show on Chronicle.

 

[DBM]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I don't know why they don't just expand the FiDi more towards North Station.

Seriously, enough with liquidating the capitalist pig running dogs and collectivizing their ill-misbegotten gains in the name of the glorious workers paradise. When are THEY going to get on with fulfilling the Five-Year Drive To Maximum Downtown Realization? The Central Committee of the Commissariat for Downtown Achievement has been really lazy of late if you ask me. Could probably stand for a few random show trials and executions.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

^^as long as we get an Athenaeum and History Museum.

 

[shawn]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

As an Irish guy who shaves his head and doesn't like wearing hats in the summer, I welcome more shadows. I can start to burn in the ~10 minutes it takes to cross the Common and the Garden.

Being against shadows is taking a pro-cancer, anti-Irish stance. I for one will not roll over for the interests of Big Sun and their racist motives!

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

You weren't listening. There was one lady complaining that the shadows would kill her cat.

The shadow argument is luncancy for downtown developments at this point. If the city wants to grow you either build taller or invest in major infrastructure to help ease transit around the surrounding areas.
The city & state planners either have no innovation ideas or are completely incompement at this point.

The city needs to develop fresh ideas on how to move 000's of people from one area to another in an efficient process.


Anybody can just build,build,build. The city needs strategic planners or Boston will end up in gridlock because of stupidity.

 

[Hubman]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

There was one lady complaining that the shadows would kill her cat.

Jesus. That complaint sounds like if someone tried to build a tower in the Simpsons.

 

[Rover]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Makes sense as I envision most NIMBY's to be crazy old cat ladies anyway. Shirley Kressel probably has about 50 of them lying around. Much like how David Birkowitz's neighbor's dog barking set him off, the meowing of the cats inspires Shirley to trudge out and oppose development projects wherever she can find them...

 

[Hubman]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Makes sense as I envision most NIMBY's to be crazy old cat ladies anyway. Shirley Kressel probably has about 50 of them lying around. Much like how David Birkowitz's neighbor's dog barking set him off, the meowing of the cats inspires Shirley to trudge out and oppose development projects wherever she can find them...

There is "The Cat Lady" in The Simpsons, and I could imagine her waving her cane and yelling at builders of a new 400' Moe's Bar.