Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Nearly everyone seems sold on Accordia, and I agree it could be the best looking tower, but the renders are so light on detail that I don't know how anyone can have any idea how this would actually turn out. They also have maybe the worst overall site plan.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

FWIW, I looked at the partnering, where such was provided.

Accordia
Ares Financial Capital Partner
Starwood for the hotel
Clark Construction, contractor
Thornton Tomasetti, structural engineers

Fallon
Holliday Fenoglio Fowler, L.P. for securing financing
Turner Construction

HYM
Moriarty contractor

Lend Lease
Hudson Group (Ori Ron of Dainty Dot) financing partner
own contractor
DeSimone, structural engineer
Hotel partner, none

Millennium
Suffolk contractor
DeSimone, structural engineer

Transnational
Toll Brothers, capital?
Holliday Fenoglio Fowler, L.P. for securing financing
Turner or Moriarty or Suffolk, contractor
Hptel partner none

Trinity
Moriarty, contractor
LeMessurier, structural engineer
GB Lodging (hotel, small boutique hotel chain)

Nada for Lincoln. I don't consider Lincoln's submission to be responsive.

Accordia's choice of Clark is interesting. Competent contractor, but well-versed in K St style and materials, which is essentially ho-hum. The only tall that I'm aware of is a joint venture with Hathaway Dinwiddie on the Transbay (now Salesforce) tower in San Francisco. But Hathaway Dinwiddie knows about building tall, they built the Transmaerica and Bank of America towers in San Francisco.

Accordia is definitely bringing something new to the table in terms of Contractor and Architect. Clark as you mentioned does not have much experience going tall, but they do quality work in other areas. I know first hand that their work at Johns Hopkins was excellent. Not sure how that translates to something of this scale, but a good track record nonetheless.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

+1

I actually like what HYM is doing in terms of urban design but the fact that they have no tower design is troubling.

You can tell which developers have built in Boston the most by how conservative their designs are.

You absolutely nailed it in both your statements. What's funny is that as bold as the Accordia design is, their marketing tactic is 100% true. The design truly does bridge the classic Boston style to Boston's present style. And they do it fantastically.

Oh Lordy, I really really hope this gets built as is.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

While I truly like SHoP's design, I think we need to take a step back and evaluate the whole proposal before we say it's Accordia or nothing. As others have mentioned, not much is known about Accordia. As I'm sure most of you know, the ability to get this thing BRA approved, permitted, financed, & built is just as important as the design.

Now personally, I like HYM's overall proposal the best. I feel like it's killing two birds with one stone. It replaces the lifeless wall that is St. Anthony's with a new tower & retail space, and replaces that decrepit garage with a church/rectory, school, & open space. I know others here have trashed HYM's proposal for their lack of rendering, but I think the diagram shown in slide 13 of their proposal has potential. It could be sleek from the south/north. Obviously nothing is set in stone, and I would like to think that given such a prominent stage, HYM would push for a truly iconic design.

Accordia is my #2, strictly on design. They brought in a good architecture firm for this project. From what I gather, Kirk Sykes (the majority partner) is a local guy, but I haven't come across anything that says he has completed something like this before. Rich Galvin & CV properties have a little more verifiable experience, but they are the minority partner. I've only done some quick googling, so maybe there is more out there that I'm missing.

Ideally, I think HYM's site plan with SHoP's tower (or a version thereof) would be ideal. Give it some architectural lighting towards the crown, and a spire that makes it really stand above the rest of the financial district and call it a day.

Millennium, Fallon, & Lend Lease are all okay in my book. They have mediocre designs and could get the job done. Lend Lease is behind some high profile stuff (I believe One57 & 432 Park) so I think they would do alright, it'd just be good to see an actual render.

Agree completely. I love what HYM does at ground level. Yeah, we don't know what their tower would look like, but if it draws at all on the level of inspiration shown at the plaza level, it will be a winner.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Nearly everyone seems sold on Accordia, and I agree it could be the best looking tower, but the renders are so light on detail that I don't know how anyone can have any idea how this would actually turn out. They also have maybe the worst overall site plan.

I personally thought there site plan was one of the better ones and I am curious what you were objecting to.

The tower concept and design at this point as far as I can tell is as good as it could be. I really like that they pull in the red-brown tones of many buildings and then having it contrast with the all glass section that references the newer buildings.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^^^ The only building that I know that Clark has built in Boston is the courthouse.
________________

Herald article with opining that condo and office in the same building don't usually succeed. Also, keying in on the public benefits package.

http://www.bostonherald.com/busines...rive_plans_developers_think_beyond_garage_lot

The reason that they cite is cold feet on the part of the developer as to how well one or the other would sell. It's not like the feet would be any warmer if the whole tower were one use, and the argument isn't that office and residential are somehow incompatible (the John Hancock Tower in Chicago is one prominent office/hotel/residential building).
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I personally thought there site plan was one of the better ones and I am curious what you were objecting to.

Massive curb cut for what is essentially a driveway.

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The tower concept and design at this point as far as I can tell is as good as it could be. I really like that they pull in the red-brown tones of many buildings and then having it contrast with the all glass section that references the newer buildings.

What material is the red-brown cladding?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

We've been trying to design a crosswalk from the ramp at 75-101 Federal to the Otis/Devonshire island and then over to Winthrop Lane. It would save me a lot of headaches if that was part of their TAPA.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Accordia should be rejected out of hand - it is way way wayyyyy too iconic, given how close the Greenway is.

[/kairos]
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

That curb cut already exists so I still do not think it is a huge issue. All of the proposals have an underground garage and Accordia handles it much better than some of the other proposals.

I think the cladding is probably terra cotta but I'm not sure they say. It just strikes me as most likely since they reference SHoPs work with terra cotta on 111 West 57th Street.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Would this site be too far away for a possible Quincy Upper School which the city would love to replace and build anew? Specifically thinking of the HYM plan and the inclusion of some sort of school.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Would this site be too far away for a possible Quincy Upper School which the city would love to replace and build anew? Specifically thinking of the HYM plan and the inclusion of some sort of school.

I had the same question -- I think it is close enough, but I believe that the space proposed is too small for the programming planned for JQUS.

The City is having a hard time finding a site for that school. Siting in a mixed use development has been mentioned!
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I didn't catch that the first time around bahahaha
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

HYM has the most innovative overall proposal although the proposed tower is not up to what should be proposed for such an ultimately iconic project
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Does anyone know what the next step is? Does the BRA select the developer, and then the developer starts going through the proposal process?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Does anyone know what the next step is? Does the BRA select the developer, and then the developer starts going through the proposal process?

Type -- Since the City of Boston owns the garage -- the BRA has dual functions and so it will receive formal proposals for the disposition of the garage from the developers and then begin the traditional process of approving the project

from Boston.com
http://www.boston.com/news/local/20...hrop-square/vCl8XUrOcsqxIovORyQtZO/story.html
Will Boston’s Next Skyscraper Emerge from Winthrop Square?
Eight developers have submitted proposals for the site.

By Kristi Palma @kristipalma
Boston.com Staff | 04.15.15 | 8:06 AM
Eight Boston developers have filed proposals to build at the site of the city-owned, run-down Winthrop Square garage in Boston’s Financial District, according to a Boston Globe report......

The proposals for the now-closed garage, which were filed this week with the Boston Redevelopment Authority, will be reviewed by city officials within the next several weeks. After that, the city will invite prospective developers to provide their proposals in greater detail.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Thanks.

As predictably stupid as the comments in that article are, OscarGamble apparently hasn't seen many cities, but I liked his enthusiasm.

"Boston has THE most boring skyline in America."
 

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