2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

Who do plan to support for President in the 2016 Election?

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 38 62.3%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 6 9.8%
  • Gary Johnson

    Votes: 11 18.0%
  • Jill Stein

    Votes: 3 4.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 4.9%

  • Total voters
    61
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Yeah. I'm still waiting for us to find the WMD's that IRAQ had to justify why we killed a million Iraqi's.

Don't be so narrow minded with your views. Just thank god you grew up in America because if you lived in Iraqi with your family and America blew up your country for no reason at all--- then you wonder why we have radicals in the country looking to harm innocent Americans.

Bush & Cheney should be up for War Crimes. Also the people in Congress that voted for this war should have done a little more research like "PROOF of the WMD's" Before voting for this conflict.

Now look at America. I have to think twice taking the underground subway.

Wake UP

I was referring more to the Alex Jones type "false flags" when he claims that Sandy Hook or Boston Marathon Bombings were done by the government.

Actually, I'm on your side when it comes to the Iraq war.
 
Maybe those people from other countries should move back to their country if they have a problem with saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the American Flag in public schools that are funded by the American Taxpayers who are able to do this based on the American soldiers who sacrificed their lives for their country. WITH LIBERTY and JUSTICE for all.

.

If you have a problem with people exercising their right of the First Amendment by not saying the Pledge of Allegiance, then you should take your own advice and GTFO. Veterans didn't fight and die to protect only the rights of those who pledge allegiance to the US, they did it to protect all the rights of all those who live in the US.
 
If you have a problem with people exercising their right of the First Amendment by not saying the Pledge of Allegiance, then you should take your own advice and GTFO. Veterans didn't fight and die to protect only the rights of those who pledge allegiance to the US, they did it to protect all the rights of all those who live in the US.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying why are the schools banning the pledge? If people choose not to stand up that is their first amendment but instead we are banning the pledge of allegiance from the public schools altogether?

So basically there is no more choice for our children To salute our flag in which is a symbol for honor, liberty, freedom and justice.
The American taxpayers pay for the public schools in which our veterans made possible in all these wars.

So no more choice to salute the flag because how people feel from other countries that's pretty screwed up.

its not like our children will understand what the main purpose is concerning the flag without guidance. Basically now they want us to ignore the concept in a public school which is funded by the public.
 
Bombshell reporting from the NYT last night:

Trump Tax Records Obtained by The Times Reveal He Could Have Avoided Paying Taxes for Nearly Two Decades
By DAVID BARSTOW, SUSANNE CRAIG, RUSS BUETTNER and MEGAN TWOHEYOCT. 1, 2016

Donald J. Trump declared a $916 million loss on his 1995 income tax returns, a tax deduction so substantial it could have allowed him to legally avoid paying any federal income taxes for up to 18 years, records obtained by The New York Times show.

The 1995 tax records, never before disclosed, reveal the extraordinary tax benefits that Mr. Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, derived from the financial wreckage he left behind in the early 1990s through mismanagement of three Atlantic City casinos, his ill-fated foray into the airline business and his ill-timed purchase of the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan.

Tax experts hired by The Times to analyze Mr. Trump’s 1995 records said that tax rules especially advantageous to wealthy filers would have allowed Mr. Trump to use his $916 million loss to cancel out an equivalent amount of taxable income over an 18-year period.

Full story: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/u...e-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

CtubWR7UIAAANbt.jpg:large
 
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So what is the Point? That Trump took a 916 Million dollar loss which helped him divert paying Federal Taxes for 18 years.

Was it legal? 916 Million dollar loss should be a red flag for the IRS to investigate. This is why the taxpayers fund this Govt Agency.

If this was legal.
Trump is going to say he was a private citizen that created jobs the lawmakers are in charge of making tax laws and IRS loopholes.

Why do these laws exist that favor the super rich?

Why hasn't one presidential administration help us change these insane tax laws over the past 20 years that have favored Billionaires and corporations?

Between the Bush bailouts, tax cuts and Whatever the hell Obama stimulus packages are and along with the continued failed policies of Govt Spending us into the abyss.
I do not see one law in our constitution claiming in America that the United State taxpayers are obligated to issue Stimilus packages or Bailouts to corporations and Unions off the backs of the working class & taxpayers of America.

Trump is NO SAINT-- and bottom line the Clintons are nothing more than opportunists who have gotten very rich as Govt Hacks--- as the American people have gotten very demoralized.
 
So what is the Point?

There are a couple of key points, none of which have anything to do with whether Trump's tax behavior was legal.

The less interesting point is that we have a rigged tax system designed to exploit the poor and benefit the rich. But we all already knew that.

The bigger point is something Trump said at the debate, which is simply amplified by this tax behavior: Clinton insinuated that Trump doesn't pay taxes, to which he snapped back (out of turn), "well it would have been squandered anyway, so what's the point?"

That bigger point means that people of Trump's mentality are incapable of differentiating between two separate and independently important phenomena: whether a project/program/public work/infrastructure/etc should or shouldn't be done in the first place, and whether said program will be well run, non-corrupt, executed with competence, etc. To Trump and those who share his politics: anything the government is involved in is doomed to fail (e.g., "it would have been squandered anyway"). Questions of whether projects should be done in the first place are constantly mixed with assumptions about inevitable incompetence - and all of this becomes self-fulfilling prophecy. Yes, there is a shitload of incompetence and corruption in the public sector - but that is separate from what projects we should take on - and such notion is an insult to the many, many public employees who are very, very decent and are visionaries for a better society.

Personally, as an engineer who has managed a dozen projects for the government, this attitude is so backwards and insulting - not just because I work hard and am competent (I've primarily worked on the industry side, under gov. contract), but actually because the gov. program offices who are my customers have been competent and have desired goodness for society.

No one likes taxes. No one. But there are some of us who don't believe in an inevitability that every cent must be "squandered." The more we recite that rhetoric, the more it will become true - that's when the opportunists swoop in.

Meanwhile, laws of free market capitalism do not guarantee that every hard-working person can be employed in private industry. We talk about supply and demand equilibria - but who says that the number of humans it will take to make X widgets equals the number of hard workers who will need jobs (especially today)? No private industry in the history of humanity has been able to employ enough of its society - governments since the ancient empires have had to employ approximately 1/3 of the population in order for full employment to be reached. The point: we must make the best use of a competent government on the best projects - infrastructure and programs that benefit quality of life for everyone.
 
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Thank you big picture for your thoughtful analysis. I couldn't have written it better myself.
 
There are a couple of key points, none of which have anything to do with whether Trump's tax behavior was legal.

The less interesting point is that we have a rigged tax system designed to exploit the poor and benefit the rich. But we all already knew that.

The bigger point is something Trump said at the debate, which is simply amplified by this tax behavior: Clinton insinuated that Trump doesn't pay taxes, to which he snapped back (out of turn), "well it would have been squandered anyway, so what's the point?"

That bigger point means that people of Trump's mentality are incapable of differentiating between two separate and independently important phenomena: whether a project/program/public work/infrastructure/etc should or shouldn't be done in the first place, and whether said program will be well run, non-corrupt, executed with competence, etc. To Trump and those who share his politics: anything the government is involved in is doomed to fail (e.g., "it would have been squandered anyway"). Questions of whether projects should be done in the first place are constantly mixed with assumptions about inevitable incompetence - and all of this becomes self-fulfilling prophecy. Yes, there is a shitload of incompetence and corruption in the public sector - but that is separate from what projects we should take on - and such notion is an insult to the many, many public employees who are very, very decent and are visionaries for a better society.

Personally, as an engineer who has managed a dozen projects for the government, this attitude is so backwards and insulting - not just because I work hard and am competent (I've primarily worked on the industry side, under gov. contract), but actually because the gov. program offices who are my customers have been competent and have desired goodness for society.

No one likes taxes. No one. But there are some of us who don't believe in an inevitability that every cent must be "squandered." The more we recite that rhetoric, the more it will become true - that's when the opportunists swoop in.

Meanwhile, laws of free market capitalism do not guarantee that every hard-working person can be employed in private industry. We talk about supply and demand equilibria - but who says that the number of humans it will take to make X widgets equals the number of hard workers who will need jobs (especially today)? No private industry in the history of humanity has been able to employ enough of its society - governments since the ancient empires have had to employ approximately 1/3 of the population in order for full employment to be reached. The point: we must make the best use of a competent government on the best projects - infrastructure and programs that benefit quality of life for everyone.

bigpicture7,

My Uncle worked for Big Govt his whole life. He started in the Air Force-- He is the most honorable person I have ever known. He does not Lie, Cheat or Steal.

Now since this is TRUMP VS CLINTON (Election)
The tax system is rigged and our elected officials need to acknowledge it after all these decades. Because the Corporations and Billionaires are in a win win scenario.
Now the people in power are giving a thumbs up to Non-profit Agencies that do not pay taxes. HILARY CLINTON joins the crowd.
Gates/Buffett Foundation (an unknown amount of Billionaires are connected to this)
Clinton Foundation (Who currently works only as secretary of state at the time) No conflict of interest there.
Zuckerberg Foundtion (This kid tried to screw everybody involved with his company now he is giving all his money away)
THEY PAY NO TAXES to the FEDERAL GOVT.
2 of the foundations made their money in free markets but now will invest their money concerning rules, regulations and polices to the lobbyists.
So what is the difference with TRUMP claiming 916 Million dollar loss compared to these foundations not paying a DIME for 100 years.

What is best for the public. Let me give you an example.
Infrastructure projects:
BIG DIG---estimated at 3 Billion dollars final price tag 22+ Billion dollars.
(People should have went to jail over this type of price tag) The FBI should have been all over this. Instead Martha Coakley our Ex attorney General signed off on Bechtel and Parsons Brinckerhoff not being held accountable.
The estimation to colonize Mars is 3 Billion right now from NASA.

Overall the BIG DIG was great for Boston but at what costs? Did we cause the New Orleans not to seal the walls concerning Katrina? Somebody missed out on the 18 extra Billion dollars. Nothing is FREE

I have no problem investing Tax Dollars into NASA, Environment, Children that need homes, Better infrastructure.

But the problem now with our current politicans/Govt Agencies is they are too intertwined with Big Business and the laws don't apply to them.

Politicans/Agencies do not represent the American People anymore. They only represent their financial interests. That is the real problem.

WE DO NOT LIVE IN FREE MARKETS ANYMORE.
Interest rates are manipulated by the FED because if they raise the rates the Federal Govt can't service higher interest rates on the 20 Trillion dollars.


And this is why we will have TRUMP as president.
The entire system will need to change in the future and hopefully the people now can vote on infrastructure projects that would better society on the internet with our tax dollars.
 
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I don't see how he can weasel out of this. Either he legitimately lost $1 billion dollars, which undermines his alleged business acumen, or something is fishy here and he is a tax dodger. One way or the other, he has egg all over his face.
 
And this is why we will have TRUMP as president.
The entire system will need to change in the future and hopefully the people now can vote on infrastructure projects that would better society on the internet with our tax dollars.

I understand why you don't like the Clintons and the political establishment in general. I legitimately get that.

I can't fathom why you think Trump will somehow turn up his nose at all the largess that being part of the political establishment would bring him.

He has shown himself to be a selfish opportunist at ever turn and every opportunity. I just don't get why you think he will somehow turn into some champion of the common man when there is literally nothing in his history that suggests he cares about anybody other then himself and his own wealth.

If you can't vote for Clinton at least vote for Johnson. He's every bit as unqualified as Trump but without all the racist vitriol.
 
Trump sucks.

but i default back to siding with the developer over the socialist maniac.
 
I understand why you don't like the Clintons and the political establishment in general. I legitimately get that.

I can't fathom why you think Trump will somehow turn up his nose at all the largess that being part of the political establishment would bring him.

He has shown himself to be a selfish opportunist at ever turn and every opportunity. I just don't get why you think he will somehow turn into some champion of the common man when there is literally nothing in his history that suggests he cares about anybody other then himself and his own wealth.

If you can't vote for Clinton at least vote for Johnson. He's every bit as unqualified as Trump but without all the racist vitriol.

It's not about being for TRUMP its more Anti-Establishment. Trump was the only candidate that could actually compete against the Clintons & Corporate machine Media, Wall St, Ect.

Look what the Democrats did to Bernie Sanders. SuperDelegates process? So if your state votes for Bernie Sanders all Hilary Clinton needs is a Super Delegate to win the state. That's a rigged election in my opinion. Basically if you have money then you win the election.

Bailouts, Stimulus Packages, Rigged Tax system, Printing money forever--Rigged elections, SuperDelegates process, corrupt media -This is stuff the NAZI regime would trump up against their citizens.

This quote by Jefferson is the truth.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"


If the Clintons win this election at this point in history they are completely above the laws of Man and can do anything they please to the sheep.

Clintons the first billionaires to never work in the private sector after their presidencies and not pay any federal taxes.
 
I guess I just don't understand how you see Trump as being outside or against the corporate machine. To me, he IS the corporate machine. In fact, he represents the worst parts of the corporate machine.

He will not bring down the corporate/political oligarchy, he will use it and exploit it to enrich himself further without any regard for this nation or it's people.

I truly believe that if starting a nuclear holocaust will make him one penny richer, he will do so without a moment's hesitation.

I also believe that if imprisoning Muslims, Jews or any other 'other' will bring him a moments glory he will do so, no questions asked.

He is dangerous. Perhaps less so to you or I but very much so to millions of other Americans. And maybe you don't really care about what happens to them, but I do so I will do everything I can to keep him out of office and if that means helping Hillary Clinton win, than so be it.
 
I guess I just don't understand how you see Trump as being outside or against the corporate machine. To me, he IS the corporate machine. In fact, he represents the worst parts of the corporate machine.

He will not bring down the corporate/political oligarchy, he will use it and exploit it to enrich himself further without any regard for this nation or it's people.

I truly believe that if starting a nuclear holocaust will make him one penny richer, he will do so without a moment's hesitation.

I also believe that if imprisoning Muslims, Jews or any other 'other' will bring him a moments glory he will do so, no questions asked.

He is dangerous. Perhaps less so to you or I but very much so to millions of other Americans. And maybe you don't really care about what happens to them, but I do so I will do everything I can to keep him out of office and if that means helping Hillary Clinton win, than so be it.

We just have opposite views on the candidates. That's exactly what I believe what type of person Hilary Clinton is. She does not care about you or anybody else its about money the same green as Trump has made.

You might be right about Trump but I'm betting Trump might have a big mouth but I believe he is not as ruthless as Clinton. Clintons would sell every American soul I guess this is what it takes to be in power for so long.


Just look at whats going on in Syria.
Who's side are we really on?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...llegedly-kills-56-civilians-in-northern-syria
 
Josh Barro <3
Donald Trump's leaked tax returns help explain why he wants to end the estate tax
Josh Barro

The $916 million loss that Donald Trump reported on his 1995 income taxes was extraordinary. As Alan Cole from the conservative Tax Foundation notes, total net operating losses claimed on all individual income tax returns in 1995 amounted to $49.3 billion.*

That is, in that year, Trump claimed nearly 2% of all the net negative business income on individual tax returns in the entire country.


Broadly, Trump's reported loss has to fall into two buckets, neither of which is great for Trump's argument that he ought to be president.

1.) Trump likely had significant real economic losses. The early 1990s were a rough period for real estate investors in general. Plus, Trump somehow found a way to lose money operating Atlantic City casinos at a time when East Coast gambling licenses were highly restricted in number and generally extremely profitable to hold. Trump became insolvent in the early 1990s as his casinos and some other real-estate assets declined in value and he nearly went bankrupt. If you have negative income (as Trump surely did in some years in the early 1990s) you don't get to have a negative tax bill; instead, you carry the losses forward onto future years' tax returns, as he did onto his 1995 taxes.

2.) Trump also, like many real-estate developers, likely benefited from significant paper losses he could take on his tax return that did not reflect real economic losses. This does not mean he was illegally evading taxes. For example, the tax code has a variety of provisions for depreciating buildings as they age — as your building gets older and less nice, you can deduct a decline in value as a business expense. This depreciation expense is based on a fixed schedule, and you can take it on your taxes even if your building is, in fact, rising in value. This is all supposed to come out in the wash in the end, because when you sell the building, you pay tax on the difference between your sale price and your purchase price, with all those depreciation expenses you took over the years deducted from the purchase price. But you can delay that tax bill as long as you delay selling the property, which can be a very long time.

So, why did Trump have such a yugely negative reported income? The story is almost surely a little from the first option ("I'm not very good at the real estate business and am mostly rich because I inherited lots of money") and a little from the second ("I had real income but I found ways to avoid paying tax on it even though you little people had to pay tax on your income.")

One fact that points toward the second explanation is that Trump's 1995 taxes reflect not just a large carried-forward loss from prior years, but also a $16 million loss from real estate and other partnerships related to 1995 itself. Real-estate investments were on the upswing again in 1995, so if Trump was really still losing money, that's a pretty bad sign about his business acumen.

Indeed, Trump's campaign seems to be settling on explanation No. 2, judging by the choice of surrogates like former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie to go on national television and praise Trump as a "genius" for reporting a negative income and paying no taxes. Trump also chose to say "that makes me smart" when Hillary Clinton accused him of avoiding taxes on his income at last week's debate.

There are some other questions, like whether Trump used creative methods to take credit on his own taxes for losses that were actually borne by banks and other creditors he stiffed. We can't answer those questions without more detailed records than the three pages of tax-return information that were leaked to The New York Times.

But there is one important upshot from the "he's a genius" explanation that hasn't been remarked on much. That Trump has accrued so many reported losses on his taxes helps explain why he's so eager to repeal the estate tax.

As I noted above, the "genius" of using strategies like depreciation expenses on real estate isn't that they avoid tax forever. It's that they allow a long delay in taxes on income related to real estate. Under current law, those taxes end up getting delayed until a real-estate asset is sold (and sometimes longer; a strategy called a 1031 exchange allows you to continue the delay so long as you buy a similar asset with the proceeds of the sale) or until you die.

At your death, the appreciation on real-estate assets doesn't get taxed. But if you're worth more than $10 million, like Trump presumably is, most of the value of your bequeathed assets can be subjected to estate tax at rates up to 40%. That can be a bigger bite than the income tax that got avoided all along.

But if Trump gets elected and gets his way on estate-tax repeal, he'll be able to pass his assets to his children tax-free when he dies — and his children (and their children and their children) will be able to avoid tax on accrued gains in the value of their real-estate portfolio as long as they don't ever sell it.

That is, Trump seems to have cleverly used the tax code to delay a lot of taxes. But if he becomes president, he can find a way for him and his family to avoid ever having to pay tax on a bunch of the income he's earned over the decades.


In a way, that would be pretty smart. It's a lot smarter than the way he managed his casinos.

*Trump's loss appears to have been mostly carried forward from prior years. This comparison is apples-to-apples because the $49.3 billion IRS figure for all individual tax returns also includes losses carried forward from prior years by other taxpayers.

This is an editorial. The opinions and conclusions expressed above are those of the author.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-returns-estate-taxes-hillary-clinton-2016-10
 
So if Clinton gets elected her family doesn't pay taxes she just collect ten million dollars in checks from the Saudis which happened to be involved with 911 since all the people flying the commercial airliners where Saudis.
Clinton started a NON-profit company which her family in the future does not PAY TAXES.

At least TRUMP worked in the private sector. The Clintons become billionaires without ever working in the private sector. Talk about totalitarian regime. These people made hundreds of millions working for our GOVT.

It's like your hypocrite. Its okay for the Clintons to steal money but not Trump?

Why hasn't the TAX laws changed? The establishment continues to not update our tax laws only make them more confusing for the masses.
 
^Give me an example of where the Clinton Foundation was used for anything other than charitable purposes? Charitywatch gives the Clinton Foundation an A with 88% of dollars donated going directly to designated causes (with the rest going to overhead). That's better than most charities. Trumps charity on the other hand used it's money, most of it donated from others, to bribe Pam Bondi and make expensive paintings of Donald Trump.

Oh and another fun story that was released recently. The Eric Trump Foundation (Trump's son) spent nearly a million dollars at Trump Golf Courses. It also donated money to a Plastic Surgeon and on paintings of the Trumps. This is despite the fact that Eric claimed that 95-100 percent of the money donated went to worthy causes. While this isn't illegal it's highly unethical.
 
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Both candidates don't pay taxes that's my point. They uses these foundations as slush funds. I'm not saying Trump is innocent but you are trying to paint him in this corner of being Hilter with money. And I see this as the establishment/Media will do anything to discredit Trump which is forcing me to vote for him. Since the Clintons are exposed as part of establishment they are corrupt and vile. I only see Trump as a Businessman and he understands how the world is cutthroat.

Do the Govt Agencies even work for the American People anymore? I'm actually surprised the FBI found Whitey Bulger.
FBI Allowed 2 Hillary Aides To "Destroy" Their Laptops In Newly Exposed "Side Agreements"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...y-their-laptops-newly-exposed-side-agreements


What is the difference between Trump trying to stop the estate tax vs The Clinton Foundation Non-profit---
Trump is trying to give his kids more inheritance and the Clintons have a Unlimited Slush fund for their family for the rest of their lives being in Politics. Next Chelsea will run for Congress.
Oh the Clintons need to give away 10% of their money to a noble cause only to manipulate that scenario who all the politics involved in that project.

If the establishment had any creditability the People/Children of Flint would not be drinking poison Water.
 
Yes Rifle, us federal employees do bust our asses to give you as much as we can for your tax dollar.
 
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