Avalon North Station | Nashua Street Residences | West End

whighlander said:
DigitalSciGuy -- I suspect that there must be a foot thick GSA Manual on Bollards post 9/11 that tells you why you can't :p
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Because of those nefarious cargo or commuter bike bombs?... I'm not convinced someone on a bike — even a cargo bike — can pose as much a threat to hard targets as any sort of motorised vehicle.

This is simply a missed opportunity for the city to work with the feds to achieve a safer street from other threats to life, including road violence.
 
A new vantage point
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Pheldy34 said:
A new vantage point
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Can't help but point out that the 171 Tremont St. tower, assuming it gets built to current specs, would almost perfectly block that view north to the State House and Avalon North Station tower, if my sense of the elevation and alignments is correct....
 
I don't think it would block much aside from part of the State House I think it is too short. It isn't even planned to be as tall as Tremont on the Common at this point I believe.
 
DigitalSciGuy said:
Because of those nefarious cargo or commuter bike bombs?... I'm not convinced someone on a bike — even a cargo bike — can pose as much a threat to hard targets as any sort of motorised vehicle.

This is simply a missed opportunity for the city to work with the feds to achieve a safer street from other threats to life, including road violence.
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Well, I guess they don't want to take the chance to please bike fanatics.
 
DigitalSciGuy said:
Because of those nefarious cargo or commuter bike bombs?... I'm not convinced someone on a bike — even a cargo bike — can pose as much a threat to hard targets as any sort of motorised vehicle.

This is simply a missed opportunity for the city to work with the feds to achieve a safer street from other threats to life, including road violence.
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DigitalSciGuy --go to India and look at what is carried on a motorcycle

I've seen a motorcycle with two of those big stainless milk cans -- one on each side
MilkManCrop.JPG


You could blow-up a whole lot of an entryway to most buildings with the right stuff inside the milk cans

You might also look at the garden entrance to the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston by Halvorson-- there are very seerious protections artfully woven into nice landscape
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But there is one really important factor that always works -- distance -- so if you can keep anything that might explode far enough away the rest is much eaisier
 
whighlander said:
You might also look at the garden entrance to the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston by Halvorson-- there are very serious protections artfully woven into nice landscape

But there is one really important factor that always works -- distance -- so if you can keep anything that might explode far enough away the rest is much eaisier
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None of the photos you show would prevent someone from riding a bike up to the door of the building. In fact, the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston has bike racks right by the doors, so the whole rambling about distance and protection from bikes is pretty far off from reality on the ground at that building.
 
If there is a GSA manual on building protection, it was written after, and because of, the Murrah building. The rather nice landscaping in front of the Federal Reserve building installed as part of the Big Dig (and which had security features) was dug up by the Fed soon after being completed, and new barriers and other features for enhanced protection installed.

With respect to the reference to 9/11, bollards offer no protection against airplanes or other flying objects.
 
dwash59 said:
None of the photos you show would prevent someone from riding a bike up to the door of the building. In fact, the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston has bike racks right by the doors, so the whole rambling about distance and protection from bikes is pretty far off from reality on the ground at that building.
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dwash -- nothing in the current manual will stop someone from walking or riding an ordinary bike. However, that pretty much limits someone to what they can carry on their back.

However, the structure of the entrance area will at the very least slow the Indian gentleman on the big motorcycle with the big milk cans
 
stellarfun said:
If there is a GSA manual on building protection, it was written after, and because of, the Murrah building. The rather nice landscaping in front of the Federal Reserve building installed as part of the Big Dig (and which had security features) was dug up by the Fed soon after being completed, and new barriers and other features for enhanced protection installed.

With respect to the reference to 9/11, bollards offer no protection against airplanes or other flying objects.
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Stellar -- there is a Big GSA Manual and its supplemented by lots of real data. Murrah started the process -- but 9/11 and the various EU events as well as experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan War Zones has helped fill it out.

The Bollards and similar thinner incarnations such as what you walk past in the Federal Reserve landscaping are all designed for one thing -- keep a truck load of stuff far enough away so that passive measures such as window coverings and structural enhancements can keep a whole lot of people from [fill the worst case scenario]
 
whighlander said:
Stellar -- there is a Big GSA Manual and its supplemented by lots of real data. Murrah started the process -- but 9/11 and the various EU events as well as experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan War Zones has helped fill it out.

The Bollards and similar thinner incarnations such as what you walk past in the Federal Reserve landscaping are all designed for one thing -- keep a truck load of stuff far enough away so that passive measures such as window coverings and structural enhancements can keep a whole lot of people from [fill the worst case scenario]
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This is getting astray, but the manual is not a GSA manual, it is a DHS Manual.
https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/st/st-bips-06.pdf

Aside from Murrah, years before 9/11, the Dept of State experienced attacks on its facilities and the bombing of American embassies. This gave rise to the [Adm.] Crowe Commission, which recommended major steps to make American diplomatic facilities safter from terrorist bombs.

http://www.usip.org/events/confronting-terrorist-threats

That was the real impetus to setting design standards, that was carried over to domestic government buildings.
 
Way off topic (maybe we move this all to a new "Building Security" thread in Boston Architecture & Urbanism?) but does anybody believe that there are actually terrorists in 2016 whose goal it is to blow up a random federal office building in the US? That way of thinking seems so twentieth century. Modern terrorists are much more focused on killing civilians in public places with small arms and small explosives than they are on targeting federal offices with truck bombs.
 
One of the things I like seeing is the new sightlines you find when a new building is built. At the lights all the way at mt auburn hospital there is a gap in the trees and this building is the only building from downtown visible from there. Pretty cool.
 
Credit to Reackt on skyscrapercity, not sure if hes on here but these are great shots.


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whighlander said:
DigitalSciGuy --go to India and look at what is carried on a motorcycle

I've seen a motorcycle with two of those big stainless milk cans -- one on each side
MilkManCrop.JPG
Click to expand...

The dude is a tiffin, not a milkman. Most likely he is delivering "home cooked" to office workers.
 
Sorry I keep posting then deleting seems when I up load from my phone it posts what it wants so I'll try again
 
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