Boston Landing | New Balance Complex | Brighton

Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Ok, time to start planning for DMU/EMU service, or at least a local train inside 128 that hits only the interior stops. This is a commuter rail line, not a subway. That makes 6 stops between Auburndale and South Station. Why can't we find other private developers like Karp and New Balance who are willing to kick in for station costs, especially when they would be told that once they did the line would get Rapid Transit frequencies?

They're rebuilding Riverside right now without addressing this with the developer at all. I'm not sure who they could get for Newton Corner, though working the station into the Gateway Center might cut down on costs a little (or alternately raise them, I'm not sure). Get BU to toss in for a couple of platforms behind Agganis to get suburban fans in for games.

6 stations within 12 miles of the city center is simply too many for a long distance Commuter Rail line - it's inefficient. That doesn't mean the station's a bad idea, but the T needs to start planning for local service now that CSX is gone.

EDIT: Why not also ask the developers of those triangular Pike parcels we keep hearing the BRA talk about to work a station in there too? Serves Prudential, could be a transfer to the Green at Hynes more easily than Yawkey-Kenmore. Bust out some walls in the GL station, use a combined headhouse and call the whole thing "Massachusetts Avenue".
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

New Balance has been in Brighton for ages. Why would they move to the Orange Line? Allston near Everett Street is rapidly infilling, and of course there's Harvard too. Should be plenty of customers for this station within walking distance, within the next decade.

It would be neat if the Riverside redevelopment provided a connection to the "D" line and a layover for the DMUs. They still need to rebuild all the Newton stations too though.

It's 10.9 miles from South Station to Riverside along the B&A. There's currently 5 intermediate stations, and will be 6 after this is done. Metro-North manages to do 5 stations spread over 11 miles in 20 minutes, that's an average speed of 33 mph. About the same as BART.

So, in conclusion, we should convert to electric trains! :)
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Nah, let's electrify the line but continue to run diesels on it indefinitely
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Max Power said:
Nah, let's electrify the line but continue to run diesels on it indefinitely
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Hybrid CNG / electric

1) Elelectify all the lines within Rt-128 -- then we can run short train high frequency service
2) leave the lines as they are outside for diesel now --with the trains converted to CNG fuel cell electric traction in 5 to 10 years
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

whighlander said:
Hybrid CNG / electric

1) Elelectify all the lines within Rt-128 -- then we can run short train high frequency service
2) leave the lines as they are outside for diesel now --with the trains converted to CNG fuel cell electric traction in 5 to 10 years
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Haven't been on the Providence Line I take it?

But that^^ plan or DMU's could work.

So long as frequencies are bumped up within 128. Any method will work really. It's the outcome that matters.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

czsz said:
For all the hoopla...think about how many resources would be saved if this little headquarters village were being built around an existing, heavy rail transit hub rather than trying to build a crude version of a transit hub from scratch using a commuter rail station. A development like this could have had tremendous consequences for any number of underdeveloped Orange Line nodes. Oh well, I guess NB needed its architectural billboard along the pike (GBH never had any excuse).
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Right now NB has a bunch of employees who are accustomed to commuting to Brighton. They may not be gung ho about commuting to JP or Roxbury. Yes, in theory, your idea is sound, but then again, you're advocating for utilizing an existing resource over improving another one.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

HenryAlan said:
Right now NB has a bunch of employees who are accustomed to commuting to Brighton. They may not be gung ho about commuting to JP or Roxbury. Yes, in theory, your idea is sound, but then again, you're advocating for utilizing an existing resource over improving another one.
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Henry -- if this works in 20 years the underutilized warehouse district could become a mini SPID or at least another significant economic core. Eventually if NB and Haaaaaaavd are successful and the area grows -- other rail or possibly newer tech solutions to improve transit access will be possible and economically feasible

However - what needs to be done now is to take advantage of the NB interest in improving the utilization of the existing commuter rail line by adding a new station. The main focus must be to feed NB's requirements to enable them to grow and prosper in their place -- don't try to use NB to solve extraneous problems
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

whighlander said:
Henry -- if this works in 20 years the underutilized warehouse district could become a mini SPID or at least another significant economic core. Eventually if NB and Haaaaaaavd are successful and the area grows -- other rail or possibly newer tech solutions to improve transit access will be possible and economically feasible.
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I've said it before: get Kraft to buy up those warehouse/car dealership lots on N. Beacon and build the soccer stadium there. Work in into the NB complex/parking. Build a couple of theme restaurants. Get WGBH to build some interactive exhibits. There's actually some nice capital for them to build off of here.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

How many times a year does a soccer stadium get used? Is it economical?
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Matthew said:
How many times a year does a soccer stadium get used? Is it economical?
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Brainstorm... the Revs had 21 home games this year (not including playoffs). That doesn't include a few friendlies and other soccer games which could be held there. Conceivably, though, the stadium would be used for many other things. It could host many of the local universities from time to time in Lax, Field Hockey, Football (if BU or NU would reconsider given that someone else would be building the field), not to mention soccer itself. Suffolk wants to use the sports facilities, and a whole bunch of Fenway colleges have D3 teams that could play there a couple times per year. Do a winter classic as part of the Beanpot with local college hockey teams. It could host high school commencements.

That's in addition to the concerts that can't fill Gillette but want to be outside. Bob Kraft has wanted to build this in Somerville for years. He must think it's economical.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

The problem is Kraft has those 21 games in Foxboro now. So maybe the soccer-specific stadium would be a big hit, but he'd be cannibalizing his existing revenue. If another entity owned the Revs I think it would be more likely to happen. With Kraft as the owner I think the Revs stay in Foxboro.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

AmericanFolkLegend said:
The problem is Kraft has those 21 games in Foxboro now. So maybe the soccer-specific stadium would be a big hit, but he'd be cannibalizing his existing revenue. If another entity owned the Revs I think it would be more likely to happen. With Kraft as the owner I think the Revs stay in Foxboro.
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From the Wikipedia article... this doesn't sound like a guy who wants to keep the team in Foxboro:

After a two-year hiatus, the Revolution renewed their plans to build a stadium in Somerville since the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority finalized its Green Line maintenance facility plans.[7] In an July 2010 interview with team owner Kraft has said that over $1MM has been invested in finding a suitable site, preferably in the urban core.[8] However, the club also has three other sites in consideration in the event of the proposal's termination.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Is it really cannibalizing profits when you'll get more revenue in return (ignoring the sunk costs of the stadiums)? The value in these teams isn't really the stadiums anyway. Attendance (which goes up with an urban stadium) is some revenue, but more importantly greater market visibility/brand recognition also leads to increased merchandising revenue, better endorsement deals, etc...
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Hutchison said:
Is it really cannibalizing profits when you'll get more revenue in return (ignoring the sunk costs of the stadiums)?
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Yes it is cannibalizing.
TOTALLY HYPOTHETICAL NUMBERS:
Let's say he can sell 100,000 tickets per year at $10 per ticket in Foxboro. And 200,000 tickets per year at $15 per ticket in Somerville.
That's $1M in revenue in Foxboro and $3M in revenue in Somerville. So his incremental profit is $2M. If he demands a 10% return on his money, the most he'd be willing to spend on a new stadium is $20M. However, a different owner (one that didn't have an existing stadium), who also demanded 10% would be willing to spend $30M.

Of course that doesn't even account for the fact that he's getting much more in parking revenue in Gillette than he will in Somerville (since mass transit isn't as much of an option). And he's benefiting from the people who come to a Revs game and shop at the mall.

Gillette Stadium is a sunk cost. The hypothetical urban stadium is not.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

^That doesn't count a better game atmosphere of both hardcore and casual soccer fans which translates into higher merchandise sales and tv deals.

Additionally, I think a large outdoor concert venue that could hold 20k-30k kicks it over the edge. IMHO
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Maybe Choo. I'm not a soccer fan so admittedly I don't know what aspects of a stadium motivate people to attend more games or buy more merch. And I agree that the metro area needs a midsized (20K) outdoor concert venue. Has Somerville indicated a willingness to allow open-air concerts? I feel like NIMBY-ism is the reason most of these venues don't exist in urban areas.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

AmericanFolkLegend said:
Maybe Choo. I'm not a soccer fan so admittedly I don't know what aspects of a stadium motivate people to attend more games or buy more merch. And I agree that the metro area needs a midsized (20K) outdoor concert venue. Has Somerville indicated a willingness to allow open-air concerts? I feel like NIMBY-ism is the reason most of these venues don't exist in urban areas.
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I'm a huge Revs fan and what we need (and want) is a smaller stadium that we can fill and get a great atmosphere going. It's impossible to achieve a desirable atmosphere at Gillette because the stadium is too big. Increased morale will lead to an increase in interest bringing in new fans who will buy merchandise from the team they like. The Revs are already trying this by advertising on the Green Line.

10,000 fans in a stadium that seats 10,000 is a much different experience than 10,000 fans in a stadium that seats 40,000.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Economics aside, MLS is pushing all it's franchises into soccer-specific stadiums. The Revs are one of the last hold outs, although the plan for Somerville's been going forward slowly for a few years. It's not a matter of will or won't they move. It's just when.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

underground said:
Economics aside, MLS is pushing all it's franchises into soccer-specific stadiums. The Revs are one of the last hold outs, although the plan for Somerville's been going forward slowly for a few years. It's not a matter of will or won't they move. It's just when.
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I'm actually not so sure about that. My understanding was that the stadium was supposed to be decked over the MBTA maintenance yard. Somerville can be behind it all they want, but they may have burned their political capital with the T when they fought for the Rte. 16 station on the GLX. The T has been resistant to such decks in the past (at Riverside, for instance). The statement from 2010 says that any firm plans would be contingent on a favorable result of an engineering study which apparently is still in progress.

Anyhoo, there's a whole other thread on that. My point is simply that building here, while property would have to be acquired, would plug a team which unquestionably ranks as Boston's 5th (probably lower if BC and BU hockey count) into a hot sports-centric urban development, while the Inner Belt site is an island in a sea of railyards.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

I totally agree though that I would love to see the Revs stadium either here or Assembly Square. It would instantly make this area into a destination. Only problem is that New Balance is not a soccer brand, but it could even be a fantastic opportunity for them to launch a soccer line.
 
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