Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)
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Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
All reasonable points. But the flip side is you're telling Taunton, FR and NB they can't have any access because of the few hundred people (a guess on my part, it its more or less someone chime in). I'd also throw out the efficiency argument here. If the Middleborough train isn't running at capacity, and we're adding one stop quickly with direct highway access to two mid-sized cities, aren't we getting a better bang for our buck on the existing line?
But, to sum up, current residents who bought recently around the existing station are going to be inconvenienced and may see a flattening of housing values (I can't picture housing increases going down in this climate even in this situation). Apologies for that, but its for the greater good. No, train stations don't usually move, but sometimes they do (the aforementioned Orange Line down Washington or the E line to Forest Hills come to mind). People adapt. I'm just not ready to give these people endangered species status. All real estate is speculative.
All reasonable points. But the flip side is you're telling Taunton, FR and NB they can't have any access because of the few hundred people (a guess on my part, it its more or less someone chime in). I'd also throw out the efficiency argument here. If the Middleborough train isn't running at capacity, and we're adding one stop quickly with direct highway access to two mid-sized cities, aren't we getting a better bang for our buck on the existing line?
But, to sum up, current residents who bought recently around the existing station are going to be inconvenienced and may see a flattening of housing values (I can't picture housing increases going down in this climate even in this situation). Apologies for that, but its for the greater good. No, train stations don't usually move, but sometimes they do (the aforementioned Orange Line down Washington or the E line to Forest Hills come to mind). People adapt. I'm just not ready to give these people endangered species status. All real estate is speculative.
fattony
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Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
How far away from Boston can someone be and still claim they deserve transit service to Boston? This is ridiculous.
The South Coast needs economic development and the state can and should help with that. However, the South Coast is simply too far away from Boston for COMMUTING TO BOSTON to be the solution. You can point to a handful of people riding a bus for 2 hours each way as evidence of ridership potential, but the viability of those buses is a symptom of the underlying problem. We need people travelling shorter distances in their day-to-day lives, not longer. When people do need or want to travel to Boston from the South Coast they should use a car to get to a park-and-ride. Cars are good at moving people around in low-density spaces, so let's not fight that.
SCR attempts to treat the symptom and does so poorly. Fall River and New Bedford need to offer residents jobs locally, not a 100 minute train ride away. A heck of a lot less than $2.3 billion can do a world of good.
Yes, the people of Middleborough and Lakeville will survive the station relocation, but no, they shouldn't have to.
How far away from Boston can someone be and still claim they deserve transit service to Boston? This is ridiculous.
The South Coast needs economic development and the state can and should help with that. However, the South Coast is simply too far away from Boston for COMMUTING TO BOSTON to be the solution. You can point to a handful of people riding a bus for 2 hours each way as evidence of ridership potential, but the viability of those buses is a symptom of the underlying problem. We need people travelling shorter distances in their day-to-day lives, not longer. When people do need or want to travel to Boston from the South Coast they should use a car to get to a park-and-ride. Cars are good at moving people around in low-density spaces, so let's not fight that.
SCR attempts to treat the symptom and does so poorly. Fall River and New Bedford need to offer residents jobs locally, not a 100 minute train ride away. A heck of a lot less than $2.3 billion can do a world of good.
Yes, the people of Middleborough and Lakeville will survive the station relocation, but no, they shouldn't have to.
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
Rover, this has come to be a conversation about a few hundred people in apartments versus everyone in NB, FR, etc. On that narrow front: the Lakeville renters, although some of them might be seriously inconvenienced, have an option in response to a station relocation: let the lease expire and move. It’s not the few hundred occupants who made a real estate bet and are now getting whipsawed, it’s the property owners.
And more powerfully significant than the property owners, the Town of Lakeville has been placing all sorts of revenue and growth bets based on cooperative state actions that the state itself has suddenly thrown into doubt. This pits town against town in a way that severely damages the state’s already very poor level of credibility on all issues related to the T generally, and South Coast rail specifically. And will make the real estate development community leery and distrustful.
But stepping to the larger context, I think you are making a category error. You repeatedly position your argument in the context of “we need to sacrifice the few for the many”. You clearly number South Coast residents as “the many”. When compared to Lakeville, yes, clearly that math works.
However, you need to get billions of dollars from the state and convince the MA congressional delegation to get fed money. At the MBTA-wide level, I hate to break bad news but: South Coast residents ARE “the few”, by a wide margin. Have you not noticed this over the years? You think the repeated failure of SCR to advance in a meaningful way is not intentional?
Baker and Pollack and the control board have been harping endlessly on “fix the existing T and improve service on it first, then expand it later”. They did not invent the concept, but since they’ve been pushing it, it has gained a lot of political traction outside of the South Coast. The argument is quite similar, politically, to yours: “we might like to add a few more towns to the T but we need to first fix things for the many cities/towns already within the T orbit.” That’s another version of “sacrifice the goals of the few for the goals of the many”, except you’re on the losing end.
If South Coast residents find themselves in a nasty town versus town feud because MassDOT keeps tossing out alternatives that throw live ammo into such feuds, don’t be surprised if the rest of us – for the umpteenth time – instruct our representatives to shit-can the entire concept of expanding to the South Coast. Redirect those billions to improving what we already have, per the oft-stated general funding priority.
You’re making this entire discussion about Lakeville sound as if you are negotiating from strength, which perhaps you are in a fight with Lakeville. At the level where the money will come from, you are negotiating from weakness. You need to get Lakeville and Middleborough and ALL the other regional towns on your side, completely and enthusiastically, and then you need to get voters from all sorts of cities/towns outside the region to come around to supporting it, which is one hell of a stretch from the get-go. If the conversation at the intra-regional level descends into a town versus town squabble, that rail extension will remain over the horizon, because the rest of us will default to “fuggedaboudit.” We’ve got lots of practice doing that, and you’re providing us the political argument to justify it: there's more of us than there are of you.
Rover, this has come to be a conversation about a few hundred people in apartments versus everyone in NB, FR, etc. On that narrow front: the Lakeville renters, although some of them might be seriously inconvenienced, have an option in response to a station relocation: let the lease expire and move. It’s not the few hundred occupants who made a real estate bet and are now getting whipsawed, it’s the property owners.
And more powerfully significant than the property owners, the Town of Lakeville has been placing all sorts of revenue and growth bets based on cooperative state actions that the state itself has suddenly thrown into doubt. This pits town against town in a way that severely damages the state’s already very poor level of credibility on all issues related to the T generally, and South Coast rail specifically. And will make the real estate development community leery and distrustful.
But stepping to the larger context, I think you are making a category error. You repeatedly position your argument in the context of “we need to sacrifice the few for the many”. You clearly number South Coast residents as “the many”. When compared to Lakeville, yes, clearly that math works.
However, you need to get billions of dollars from the state and convince the MA congressional delegation to get fed money. At the MBTA-wide level, I hate to break bad news but: South Coast residents ARE “the few”, by a wide margin. Have you not noticed this over the years? You think the repeated failure of SCR to advance in a meaningful way is not intentional?
Baker and Pollack and the control board have been harping endlessly on “fix the existing T and improve service on it first, then expand it later”. They did not invent the concept, but since they’ve been pushing it, it has gained a lot of political traction outside of the South Coast. The argument is quite similar, politically, to yours: “we might like to add a few more towns to the T but we need to first fix things for the many cities/towns already within the T orbit.” That’s another version of “sacrifice the goals of the few for the goals of the many”, except you’re on the losing end.
If South Coast residents find themselves in a nasty town versus town feud because MassDOT keeps tossing out alternatives that throw live ammo into such feuds, don’t be surprised if the rest of us – for the umpteenth time – instruct our representatives to shit-can the entire concept of expanding to the South Coast. Redirect those billions to improving what we already have, per the oft-stated general funding priority.
You’re making this entire discussion about Lakeville sound as if you are negotiating from strength, which perhaps you are in a fight with Lakeville. At the level where the money will come from, you are negotiating from weakness. You need to get Lakeville and Middleborough and ALL the other regional towns on your side, completely and enthusiastically, and then you need to get voters from all sorts of cities/towns outside the region to come around to supporting it, which is one hell of a stretch from the get-go. If the conversation at the intra-regional level descends into a town versus town squabble, that rail extension will remain over the horizon, because the rest of us will default to “fuggedaboudit.” We’ve got lots of practice doing that, and you’re providing us the political argument to justify it: there's more of us than there are of you.
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
What if we could come up with a plan that would double track part of the South Station to Braintree segment that is currently single tracked and would use that additional double tracking to increase the frequencies that Brockton and Bridgewater would see, and then redirect all of the trains away from the existing Middleboro station to serve Fall River and New Bedford, but run Princeton Dinky like service between Bridgewater (or a new North Middleboro Station) and the existing Middleboro station to meet every train that serves Bridgewater? That would mean that folks at the existing Middleboro station would lose their one seat ride to South Station, but perhaps the increased frequencies might partially compensate for that?
What if we could come up with a plan that would double track part of the South Station to Braintree segment that is currently single tracked and would use that additional double tracking to increase the frequencies that Brockton and Bridgewater would see, and then redirect all of the trains away from the existing Middleboro station to serve Fall River and New Bedford, but run Princeton Dinky like service between Bridgewater (or a new North Middleboro Station) and the existing Middleboro station to meet every train that serves Bridgewater? That would mean that folks at the existing Middleboro station would lose their one seat ride to South Station, but perhaps the increased frequencies might partially compensate for that?
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
West, if that's the way you'd like to play it no transit projects will get done, including GLX. The people who directly benefit from plan XXX are ALWAYS smaller than the whole at least post Big Dig. Why should be spend 3bn dollars for a couple of mile stretch of track from Lechmere to Tufts for example? You can play that card if you want, but don't be upset if it then gets used against you.
Obviously the T needs to fix itself. As a regular Red Line customer, I know this all too well (full disclosure I live in the inner suburbs of Boston - not the South Coast which is where I came from). So, if your answer is no projects until new cars, switching, etc is done hey I'm good with that. But if we are doing projects at the same time, this one should be on the list pending of course an updated study that we're all waiting for.
fattony you have a pretty simplistic view of things. Sure, why can't every city outside of Boston just start creating jobs locally? Gee, why didn't anybody think of that before?
Also, as I mentioned earlier, anybody still quoting the 2.3Bn figure is either into strawman arguments, likes long winded posts, or their girlfriend banged someone from the south coast and this is revenge. I'll leave it to you to tell us which one it is that applies to you.
West, if that's the way you'd like to play it no transit projects will get done, including GLX. The people who directly benefit from plan XXX are ALWAYS smaller than the whole at least post Big Dig. Why should be spend 3bn dollars for a couple of mile stretch of track from Lechmere to Tufts for example? You can play that card if you want, but don't be upset if it then gets used against you.
Obviously the T needs to fix itself. As a regular Red Line customer, I know this all too well (full disclosure I live in the inner suburbs of Boston - not the South Coast which is where I came from). So, if your answer is no projects until new cars, switching, etc is done hey I'm good with that. But if we are doing projects at the same time, this one should be on the list pending of course an updated study that we're all waiting for.
fattony you have a pretty simplistic view of things. Sure, why can't every city outside of Boston just start creating jobs locally? Gee, why didn't anybody think of that before?
Also, as I mentioned earlier, anybody still quoting the 2.3Bn figure is either into strawman arguments, likes long winded posts, or their girlfriend banged someone from the south coast and this is revenge. I'll leave it to you to tell us which one it is that applies to you.
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Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
Rover, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS BEEN PLAYING THIS CARD for your last so many posts. You've been saying the few need to be sacrificed for the many, with "few" being Lakeville and "many" being South Coast.
Your last sentence in this paragraph is precisely what I was warning YOU about. You don't need to turn it around and warn me of it, I've been on the short end of that thinking plenty of times, I'm fully aware of it.
Also, in your first sentence, you warn that nothing will ever get done if this approach gets used. Actually, all sorts of transit work is getting done (not as much as I'd like) and GLX might get back on track too (I know, not certain yet). Hell, even SSX and NSRL are being floated again. Why is it that some work is getting done, while SCR is forever on the backburner? Because this "sacrifice the few for the many" logic - that YOU have been advocating should be used, not me - tends to put South Coast on the perpetual losing end.
A little psychological projection maybe? If you think I'm playing a bad card, maybe you ought to explain why you've been playing it for several days now?
Rover, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS BEEN PLAYING THIS CARD for your last so many posts. You've been saying the few need to be sacrificed for the many, with "few" being Lakeville and "many" being South Coast.
Your last sentence in this paragraph is precisely what I was warning YOU about. You don't need to turn it around and warn me of it, I've been on the short end of that thinking plenty of times, I'm fully aware of it.
Also, in your first sentence, you warn that nothing will ever get done if this approach gets used. Actually, all sorts of transit work is getting done (not as much as I'd like) and GLX might get back on track too (I know, not certain yet). Hell, even SSX and NSRL are being floated again. Why is it that some work is getting done, while SCR is forever on the backburner? Because this "sacrifice the few for the many" logic - that YOU have been advocating should be used, not me - tends to put South Coast on the perpetual losing end.
A little psychological projection maybe? If you think I'm playing a bad card, maybe you ought to explain why you've been playing it for several days now?
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
How about they just build the freaking Stoughton alternative like everyone agreed to? This whole Middleborough now/Stoughton later BS is just a waste of time and money and needless debate. Build the Stoughton line in phases, and open it up one station at a time.
How about they just build the freaking Stoughton alternative like everyone agreed to? This whole Middleborough now/Stoughton later BS is just a waste of time and money and needless debate. Build the Stoughton line in phases, and open it up one station at a time.
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
Lets get back on track here (pun intended).
Somebody brought up the effect of a station move on people in Lakeville. A good point and a proper consideration, but not enough to derail the entire project (see Harbor Towers example) IMHO. There was a tangent about how this will scare all of the region's real estate agents away from making deals which seems a bit overblown since moving T stations has in fact happened before (in Boston) and we managed to stave off cannibalism in the years that followed but again I feel for this handful of people. However, I've got to be honest here. Not everybody is going to be completely happy. If that was the goal, nothing would ever get done.
Next the projects you site as being closer than SCR which is on the backburner with the exception of GLX are wishful thinking. Our grandchildren probably won't live long enough to see NSRL. Even SSX, a frankly more worthwhile project than SCR, is nowhere close to even starting and everybody is completely on board with it.
Finally you seem to imply public works projects are subject to some sort of statewide referendum, and you're this close to leaning on your reps to oppose SCR forever. Look, no offense, but I highly doubt ANY of these current proposed projects really register on the average person's radar. GLX a little when the contractors tried to screw the state. What South Coast pols need to do is convince Baker that a cost effective expansion is worthwhile. If they can do so, and we'll see when we get a new study hopefully with ridership projections and the like, it may get built before NSRL or even SSX because it in theory is a simpler project with less moving parts. Time will tell...
Lets get back on track here (pun intended).
Somebody brought up the effect of a station move on people in Lakeville. A good point and a proper consideration, but not enough to derail the entire project (see Harbor Towers example) IMHO. There was a tangent about how this will scare all of the region's real estate agents away from making deals which seems a bit overblown since moving T stations has in fact happened before (in Boston) and we managed to stave off cannibalism in the years that followed but again I feel for this handful of people. However, I've got to be honest here. Not everybody is going to be completely happy. If that was the goal, nothing would ever get done.
Next the projects you site as being closer than SCR which is on the backburner with the exception of GLX are wishful thinking. Our grandchildren probably won't live long enough to see NSRL. Even SSX, a frankly more worthwhile project than SCR, is nowhere close to even starting and everybody is completely on board with it.
Finally you seem to imply public works projects are subject to some sort of statewide referendum, and you're this close to leaning on your reps to oppose SCR forever. Look, no offense, but I highly doubt ANY of these current proposed projects really register on the average person's radar. GLX a little when the contractors tried to screw the state. What South Coast pols need to do is convince Baker that a cost effective expansion is worthwhile. If they can do so, and we'll see when we get a new study hopefully with ridership projections and the like, it may get built before NSRL or even SSX because it in theory is a simpler project with less moving parts. Time will tell...
JeffDowntown
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Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
I am not sure what you mean by "stave off cannibalism", but the move of the Orange Line alignment from the core of Roxbury to the Roxbury/JP line (NEC Corridor) was hugely disruptive to Roxbury, and has certainly not been forgiven in that community.
And it has taken 30 years for residential TOD to finally start happening along the realigned Orange Line -- I have to wonder how much of that time was due to developer uncertainty about the controversial realignment.
I am not sure what you mean by "stave off cannibalism", but the move of the Orange Line alignment from the core of Roxbury to the Roxbury/JP line (NEC Corridor) was hugely disruptive to Roxbury, and has certainly not been forgiven in that community.
And it has taken 30 years for residential TOD to finally start happening along the realigned Orange Line -- I have to wonder how much of that time was due to developer uncertainty about the controversial realignment.
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
Jeff it ain't worth it man. The guy has to have the last word and will play as far and loose with the facts as necessary in order to justify his pet project. For him, it's personal, and there's no making rational arguments with someone taking the subject personally.
Jeff it ain't worth it man. The guy has to have the last word and will play as far and loose with the facts as necessary in order to justify his pet project. For him, it's personal, and there's no making rational arguments with someone taking the subject personally.
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Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
Not at all. I'm asking doubters to take a fresh look at things, complete with new #'s when they come. Unfortunately people who were rightly opposed to the old proposal seem hell bent on opposing anything for any reason. This is detrimental to the public good. However, if you'd like exchange insults instead I'd be more than happy to do so. Either way works for me.
Not at all. I'm asking doubters to take a fresh look at things, complete with new #'s when they come. Unfortunately people who were rightly opposed to the old proposal seem hell bent on opposing anything for any reason. This is detrimental to the public good. However, if you'd like exchange insults instead I'd be more than happy to do so. Either way works for me.
fattony
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Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
I don't at all have a simplistic view of things. I'd argue the contrary. SCR is clearly well intentioned, but come on pull your head out of the sand. This thing has been doomed since the minute they published ridership projections. A shiny new choo-choo to the big city is, at best, a half-baked solution to complicated problems facing the South Coast and a host of other cities across Mass and the US.
You think its cute to post internet eyerolls and ad hominems, but I think you need to reexamine the very weak position you are taking. The SCR boondoggle deserves an eyeroll and taxpayers ought to be asked to invest in viable, sustainable economic development. I know it hard problem and I don't have the answers. But it clearly is a problem that can't be bandaided by a fucking choo-choo train.
fattony you have a pretty simplistic view of things. Sure, why can't every city outside of Boston just start creating jobs locally? Gee, why didn't anybody think of that before?
I don't at all have a simplistic view of things. I'd argue the contrary. SCR is clearly well intentioned, but come on pull your head out of the sand. This thing has been doomed since the minute they published ridership projections. A shiny new choo-choo to the big city is, at best, a half-baked solution to complicated problems facing the South Coast and a host of other cities across Mass and the US.
You think its cute to post internet eyerolls and ad hominems, but I think you need to reexamine the very weak position you are taking. The SCR boondoggle deserves an eyeroll and taxpayers ought to be asked to invest in viable, sustainable economic development. I know it hard problem and I don't have the answers. But it clearly is a problem that can't be bandaided by a fucking choo-choo train.
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
I would argue that framing the SCR project as just for New Bedford and Fall River has always been wrong. This is also about the towns and Taunton along that corridor - even if Raynham, Easton and Stoughton won't admit it. Ridership from Taunton north is where the biggest counts would be initially.
SCR has been delayed, delayed and made more expensive as years marched on. A good tactic that ramped up the cost of Greenbush (though apparently not enough). F-Line has summed up my feelings about this project in regards to the Army Corp study and its conclusions.
And now we have the damn Middleboro reroute back on the table. One big sigh and shrug of resignation. The SCR haters are on the cusp of victory I'm afraid. One can only hope when it comes time to expand RT24 to four lanes, they are there to demand it be elevated where it crosses the Hock!
I would argue that framing the SCR project as just for New Bedford and Fall River has always been wrong. This is also about the towns and Taunton along that corridor - even if Raynham, Easton and Stoughton won't admit it. Ridership from Taunton north is where the biggest counts would be initially.
SCR has been delayed, delayed and made more expensive as years marched on. A good tactic that ramped up the cost of Greenbush (though apparently not enough). F-Line has summed up my feelings about this project in regards to the Army Corp study and its conclusions.
And now we have the damn Middleboro reroute back on the table. One big sigh and shrug of resignation. The SCR haters are on the cusp of victory I'm afraid. One can only hope when it comes time to expand RT24 to four lanes, they are there to demand it be elevated where it crosses the Hock!
millerm277
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Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
Stoughton already has CR service and Easton residents can go in any direction other than South and be at a CR station in <15 minutes. SCR certainly won't be a bad thing for them, but it's not particularly gamechanging for them.
Stoughton already has CR service and Easton residents can go in any direction other than South and be at a CR station in <15 minutes. SCR certainly won't be a bad thing for them, but it's not particularly gamechanging for them.
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Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
20-minute clockface service to Middleboro/Wareham and Attleboro/Providence, with good park and rides has always struck me as a serious contender for the best park and ride solution (particularly since it directs cars into an east-west rush hour perpendicular to the current north-south one)
20-minute clockface service to Middleboro/Wareham and Attleboro/Providence, with good park and rides has always struck me as a serious contender for the best park and ride solution (particularly since it directs cars into an east-west rush hour perpendicular to the current north-south one)
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: Taunton to Boston commute
I'm wondering if Taunton would be best served by bus service to Mansfield.
Google Maps tells me going from Taunton (whatever point in the city it picks) to Mansfield MBTA is 28 minutes in typical traffic via Bay St and I-495. Mansfield is then roughly 30-45 minutes to South Station, and Mansfield probably will get more frequent service than any Taunton station ever would.
Less than $10 million could probably easily buy enough battery powered buses from a manufacturer like Proterra to cover the route with 15 minute headways. $5 million might even be enough if the buses won't get stuck in traffic and the bids are aggressive enough.
I'm wondering if Taunton would be best served by bus service to Mansfield.
Google Maps tells me going from Taunton (whatever point in the city it picks) to Mansfield MBTA is 28 minutes in typical traffic via Bay St and I-495. Mansfield is then roughly 30-45 minutes to South Station, and Mansfield probably will get more frequent service than any Taunton station ever would.
Less than $10 million could probably easily buy enough battery powered buses from a manufacturer like Proterra to cover the route with 15 minute headways. $5 million might even be enough if the buses won't get stuck in traffic and the bids are aggressive enough.
Re: Taunton to Boston commute
I don't think this works. Lets say the Taunton commute times are accurate door to door (and I'm somewhat skeptical). You'd have to build in the 15 minutes you mention for traffic, getting off bus and on to train, etc. That's about 45 minutes on top of a 45 minute commuter rail ride. For that kind of time people will just drive themselves in. Not to mention this does nothing for people who are south of Taunton.
Run the rail to Taunton and your park and ride idea works. Its a straight shot up 24 and 140 which meet up in Taunton near where the train station should be located.
Not workable because there are no good east west connections. You either go on 195 which runs from roughly the Cape bridges to Providence, or you go on 495. Either way you're getting caught in brutal traffic (Providence) or you're going north then, south east or southwest to get to a train station. Oddly enough the rail track from Middleborough to Taunton cuts through the woods and is a more direct connection.
I don't think this works. Lets say the Taunton commute times are accurate door to door (and I'm somewhat skeptical). You'd have to build in the 15 minutes you mention for traffic, getting off bus and on to train, etc. That's about 45 minutes on top of a 45 minute commuter rail ride. For that kind of time people will just drive themselves in. Not to mention this does nothing for people who are south of Taunton.
Run the rail to Taunton and your park and ride idea works. Its a straight shot up 24 and 140 which meet up in Taunton near where the train station should be located.
Not workable because there are no good east west connections. You either go on 195 which runs from roughly the Cape bridges to Providence, or you go on 495. Either way you're getting caught in brutal traffic (Providence) or you're going north then, south east or southwest to get to a train station. Oddly enough the rail track from Middleborough to Taunton cuts through the woods and is a more direct connection.
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail
Unfortunately this was posted April 2, not April 1: "THE STATE’S TOP ENVIRONMENTAL OFFICIAL on Monday gave the green light to a project that would phase in rail service from Boston to New Bedford and Fall River, with the first phase launching in 2022."
Holy cost-per-rider!
Phase 1: $935 mil for 1600 riders = $584,000 per rider
Phase 1+2: $3.3 bil for 3900 riders = $846,000 per rider
BUT this will actually reduce bus users by 800, so the net new riders is only 3100
Phase 1+2 minus mode shifters: $3.3 bil for 3100 = $1,064,500 per new rider
Did I do this right?
EDIT: no, I didn't--the 1600 estimate is for 2030, which is after Phase 2, not Phase 1. So there will be even fewer new riders for Phase 1, making the cost per rider even higher than I stated above.
Unfortunately this was posted April 2, not April 1: "THE STATE’S TOP ENVIRONMENTAL OFFICIAL on Monday gave the green light to a project that would phase in rail service from Boston to New Bedford and Fall River, with the first phase launching in 2022."
Holy cost-per-rider!
Phase 1: $935 mil for 1600 riders = $584,000 per rider
Phase 1+2: $3.3 bil for 3900 riders = $846,000 per rider
BUT this will actually reduce bus users by 800, so the net new riders is only 3100
Phase 1+2 minus mode shifters: $3.3 bil for 3100 = $1,064,500 per new rider
Did I do this right?
EDIT: no, I didn't--the 1600 estimate is for 2030, which is after Phase 2, not Phase 1. So there will be even fewer new riders for Phase 1, making the cost per rider even higher than I stated above.