Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

How is OCL supposed to handle two more branches than it currently does?
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Not sure how they plan on incorporating Fall River, but even their politicians are saying its okay to do New Bedford first. To that end, isn't New Bedford just a continuation on existing track of the Middleborough train? As in the last stop (with the station being moved north because I think the junction is a little further up the tracks than the current station as the article mentions) was formerly Middleborough/Lakeville but now it'll be New Bedford? Might change the schedule a little bit but no extra capacity.

Only thing I don't like is Whale's Tooth. I realize its the end of the line terminating by the Wamsutta Mills and the state pier but the connections to the highway are terrible. Exit off of 195 takes you through a few narrow back roads, and turn off of Rt 18 (which cuts off good portion of city from the water send you over roads littered with defunct train tracks. Also not sure about the parking situation although I suppose they could use old mill parking lot across the street. Would rather see a north end NB stop initially.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

The layover yard will be in the current yard along with some designated freight tracks that have been in use off and on - mainly for the PCB sludge removal traffic. The Maritime Terminal will be getting rail service again as soon as the bridge replacement project over RT 18 is done (soon). The only thing that really bothers me is the dumb name for the station.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

which will never happen due to the environmental mitigation through a swamp where the residents claim Big Foot might live (that was actually written in the Globe once, not making that up).

Oh, you must mean this--a landmark documentary on a *most important* cryptozoological phenomenon:

http://thebridgewatertriangledocumentary.com/

So as to absorb the cultural landscape of the Hockomock, viewers are advised to imbibe copious quantities of this brew [which yours truly has yet to sample but is most intrigued by]:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/39144/165135/

*End thread derail*
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Hadn't thought about the layover yard. That's one of the reasons I'd like to see an updated formal proposal. They have room at Whale's Tooth so that makes sense but I still say the road connections are terrible. Was down there last week and it looks like they're working on the railroad bridge over Rt 18 but getting to the station is going to be a big issue that needs to be addressed.

Regarding Big Foot in the swamp, I got hammered on Goldschlager once....just once...and from my vague recollections that night I think I saw Big Foot driving a Green Line train. Whatever those people are on down there they need to bottle it up and sell it.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

If overhead power lines for commuter rail are too expensive, and battery EMUs too hypothetical at this point, maybe we should think about HOV lanes in conjuction with battery buses, given that Proterra claims to be able to make battery buses that can go 350 miles on a charge. (That might be the range at 35 MPH, but even if that's the case it probably has enough battery range to travel from Fall River to Boston at 65 MPH on a single charge.)
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I've never understood why this hasn't been built as HOV/BRT/dedicated express bus service. It makes far more sense than rail for this route.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I've never understood why this hasn't been built as HOV/BRT/dedicated express bus service. It makes far more sense than rail for this route.

Hmmmm...curious as to how that would work as someone who many years ago made this commute regularly. Does the HOV lane start in these cities themselves, which would be difficult since both Rt 24 and Rt 140 are two lane highways all the way to Taunton where the join up and then I believe up to 495 where the highway widens. I'm also not sure how you make the connection at the 93/95 split in Braintree and then connect to the existing HOV lane where it starts after the Rt 3/93 split. Seems the bus would have to cross all lanes of the highway at some point.

My personal preference again is to merely run the Middleborough train down to Taunton and NB and call it a day. Same schedule for Middleborough, same usage and capacity unless the Middleborough train is already packed to the gills and I don't believe it is. Solve Fall River later. Yes this will require moving the Middleborough station but that's a pretty small price to pay vs the alternatives.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Well I didn't say no construction would be required, just less and simpler. But I'm fine with the Taunton solution, too. I just don't think the full build rail solution makes financial sense for the expected ridership.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I'm also not sure how you make the connection at the 93/95 split in Braintree and then connect to the existing HOV lane where it starts after the Rt 3/93 split. Seems the bus would have to cross all lanes of the highway at some point.

In other parts of the country, where they are more serious about HOV lanes, this kind of crossover is done with a dedicated HOV flyover ramp.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

A few follow up thoughts:

1) I'm not dismissing the HOV idea out of hand. I do think it would take a bit of work though particularly between the aforementioned 24/93 and 3/93 splits. A flyover as was mentioned would have be built somewhere along the way. There might also need to be some widening along 24 especially as it approaches 95/93.

2) Big mistake IMHO, and no doubt the result of political pandering, is addressing NB and Fall River together in this project. They are two different sets of issues. New Bedford just seems easier and their pols have it together a little bit more. Also anecdotally I've seen more work being done on the tracks and bridges in NB than FR.

3) Lastly if you want to think long term, New Bedford's port serves not only the fishing industry, but it runs the ferries out to the Cape and Islands. Much like the Cape Flyer gives people an alternative to being stuck in Cape traffic in season, with some state aided promotion you could make the connection from South Station to the public pier in NB where the ferries depart from. The end of the line train station is pretty close by. Might be better than trying to catch the ferry in Falmouth during the summer.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Notice of Project Change filed

Dear friends of South Coast Rail,

Since the last round of public meetings on South Coast Rail in September 2016, MassDOT and the MBTA have been looking at ways to provide service to the South Coast more quickly and cost effectively. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts is committed to moving forward with the SCR project and to doing so in a manner that provides long-awaited commuter rail service for the South Coast region as soon as possible. For this reason, MassDOT is proceeding with permitting and early actions on the Stoughton Electric project already reviewed by the Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act office (MEPA) while also proposing to adopt a phased approach that could provide an interim service years before revenue service is possible on the final phase project.

MassDOT filed a Notice of Project Change (NPC) on March 15, 2017 in order to advance the option of an interim service serving both New Bedford and Fall River using the existing Middleborough/Lakeville Commuter Rail Line while at the same time work proceeds to design, permit and fund the Stoughton Electric final phase project (including, particularly, the so-called Southern Triangle).

While the Stoughton Electric Route remains the choice of the federal and state environmental process, a phased implementation will permit the MBTA to serve the region sooner while continuing to work with the agencies and the public to design and build the full service. SCR Phase 1 would provide service from New Bedford, Fall River and Taunton to Boston using the Middleborough Secondary line and the existing Middleborough/Lakeville Commuter Rail line. For Phase 2, MassDOT will continue to advance the full Stoughton Electric (preferred alternative) design, which consists of new track and stations between Canton Center and Cotley Junction.

Phase 1 service would be diesel service to be compatible with the existing line. The ride from New Bedford and Fall River to South Station will be longer compared to Stoughton Electric service. However, MassDOT heard the sentiments expressed in the last round of public meetings – to do something now to provide a transit option to residents of the region, restoring service last provided to the South Coast in 1959.

The NPC is required since the Middleborough Option was not previously evaluated in the Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act (MEPA) documents, and MassDOT did not propose a phased approach. The NPC discusses aspects of the project that are likely to require additional analysis in a Supplemental Environmental Impact Report (SEIR). MassDOT is also working with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to define the federal process.

MassDOT will host a public meeting on the NPC during the comment period. More details will be announced in a future email and on the website.

Documents are here: http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/southcoastrail/Documents/Environmental.aspx
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

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Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Praise the Lord. Glad to see some common sense seeping in. Train to Stoughton will never happen, so looks like having that as "phase 2" is ass covering. Regardless I hope they don't hold up one city while it waits for track/station construction in the other one. Start with a couple of bare bones stations (end of each line, then Taunton, then Middleborough). No need to do Freetown or Dighton or any other such nonsense right away.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Did this Phase 1 happen to include unpinching the single-track section of the Old Colony between JFK/UMass & Savin Hill? Middleboro could use it all by itself. Going to Taunton cries out for it.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Did this Phase 1 happen to include unpinching the single-track section of the Old Colony between JFK/UMass & Savin Hill? Middleboro could use it all by itself. Going to Taunton cries out for it.

Yes. It involves an extremely messy widening of the ROW along the Southeast Expressway.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Yes. It involves an extremely messy widening of the ROW along the Southeast Expressway.

Where do you see that in the NPC? I think that is a different project entirely that is not included in this filing or budget.

This routing is failure by design. It allows DOT to get some of the South Coast pols off their backs for a few years with a hobbled service that is not frequent enough or fast enough to attract enough passengers to make it viable. Then, when it fails to attract those passengers and completely fouls the Old Colony from Braintree to Dorchester, they can say "See? We told to so." and kill the service citing outrageous subsidy per passenger. All the while, fucking over a perfectly good and highway accessible Park&Ride/TOD in Lakeville.

This plan is so cynical that it physically hurts. You can make plenty of valid arguments about the need for the service but Pacheco is correct here - the sweet spot for this service is not NB/FR but Taunton. This actually reduces the viability of a potentially strong service in Taunton as a throwaway to NB/FR.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Disagree. People need to see the big picture here. Boston has a serious problem, which is not enough workers. So the question becomes 1) where do they come from, and 2) how do they get here. As far as I can tell, the only untapped places not currently served by mass transit are New Hampshire which the last time I checked wasn't part of our state, and Southeastern Mass which is and has higher unemployment.

I am in no way in favor of the multi billion dollar boondoggle that was the original plan to resurrect a rail line that's been defunct for 50 years through environmentally sensitive areas. That's even before the lawsuits start. However, running along existing tracks? What's the problem?

Yes, NB and FR commuters will have to prove their demand by riding the thing. But why wouldn't they? Having done that commute before the bus service is horrific and charges extortion level prices because they have a monopoly on the service. Traffic is insane and gridlock starts between Taunton and 495. If people in Taunton have to go to a station at the junction of 24 and 140 instead of downtown, boo hoo hoo already. Taunton has about 65K population while FR and NB are like 90-100K each. It doesn't make sense to screw them so a smaller city which is getting a rail station either way has a stop exactly where they please.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

How many FR/NB commuters live in the downtown anyway?
A Taunton park-and-ride probably much better serves this any Boston-bound commuter in the South Coast catchment.

This project is not about TOD and walking to the train. It is about intercepting car trips before they crowd into 24. Taunton will be very effective.

US3 Need a PPP and congestion-tolled center from the Cape to the Boston Haul road. We may not have a plausible builder for that right now, but Virginia has certainly mastered the art with all its toll lanes on its Beltway and I-95/I-66. That should be accelerated and get us the Old Colony fix.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

So they say that the Middleboro route will be slightly slower than the Stoughton route but in the 52 page Notice of Project Change don't list actual expected travel time?

Why is there no bus service that I'm aware of from Taunton, Fall River, and New Bedford to an existing Middleboro Line station right now?

Also, why don't we have congestion tolling on the existing highways?
 

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