General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Are we actually taking the Chinese offer seriously? Going by their lack of established reputation... and established reputation as an origin of manufacturer... they will be cheap. Maybe they are finally at the stage to start offering quality like other 1st world Asian countries after starting out doing lower quality. If luck out, we would get a great value. But if not, we'll get a debacle worse than the Bredas... we're in no position to absorb another failure like that again.

The Chinese are likely to win, in my opinion, because of the "Buy Massachusetts" provision. If you're Siemens or Japanese, you compete on price and quality, not where the thing is built--and you deliver a quality products and keep costs low by avoiding rookie errors, reworks, and delays--and thus by making them at facilities with experienced workers--not Massachusetts newbies.

If you're Rotem, you've already got your clunky "Buy Pennsylvania" facility in Philly clawing its way up the quality curve and don't need another facility where you'd have to start over, thank you very much.

That leaves the Chinese (perhaps, if we're lucky, partnering with Siemens), as the only ones with low-enough home-country production costs (making the "shells") and desperate enough to "suck up" the absurd costs and risks of starting a new Massachusetts production facility.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Are we actually taking the Chinese offer seriously? Going by their lack of established reputation... and established reputation as an origin of manufacturer... they will be cheap. Maybe they are finally at the stage to start offering quality like other 1st world Asian countries after starting out doing lower quality. If luck out, we would get a great value. But if not, we'll get a debacle worse than the Bredas... we're in no position to absorb another failure like that again.

Part of the scoring is going to be how many jobs each proposer is going to plan to have in Massachusetts. Since neither Chinese builder has any facility in the U.S. now, both are likely to propose a larger facility and more job creation in their plans than any of the other four proposers which presumably are companies that already have some U.S. facility. They will score high for that, they will score high for costs. If either or both of them are able to bring Siemens on as a subcontractor to supply the propulsion systems, they might score high on the engineering side as well. (as noted in other posts, since it is a competitive negotiation procurement, the MBTA will not announce the names of the proposers until a contract is ready for a board vote, I am only assuming that CSR and CNR are two of the six bidders)
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

If you're Rotem, you've already got your clunky "Buy Pennsylvania" facility in Philly clawing its way up the quality curve and don't need another facility where you'd have to start over, thank you very much.

.

I don't disagree with CSR and CNR being potential leading contenders, but Rotem has stated they were bidding, so they are willing to put some sort of facility into Mass. I wouldn't rule out that they might be willing to close the Philly facility if they get the MBTA order. Remember, the Rotem workers in Philly are represented by SEPTA's bus/rail operators union, TWU local 234. Depending on how contract negotiations are going, Rotem might not want to stay. Based on links below from 2011/2012, It looks like their existing Philly labor contract expires at the end of this year:
http://articles.philly.com/2011-12-13/news/30512181_1_septa-hyundai-rotem-new-cars
http://www.twu.org/blog/tabid/84/vw/1/itemid/186/hyundai-rotem-workers-win-first-contract.aspx
 
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Anyone know what this "Off Peak Service" that's coming on Jan 1 2015 will amount to? In a Letter from Davey in Commonwealth Magazine, he touts this service as being the offset for the GLX Extension delay (and calls it an Unfunded Mandate from the Romney Administration).

Whatever it is, it is absurdly cheap shot to blame Romney--the real unfunded mandate here is the GLX *itself* with the mandate coming from the waning hours of the *Dukakis* Administration as part of the settlement with the CLF. The need to do offsets for delay can fall quite equally on the Patrick administration--or Weld-Cellucci-Swift.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

More buses, and perhaps a few more trains, during off-peak. Here is the list of mitigation items. Nothing exciting - the ones we're mostly likely to see are extensions of more GL trains to Lechmere (except during the 17 month closure...), and reduction of headways on the uselessly-infrequent buses.

The problem is that nothing the MBTA can do can actually mitigate the shift in ridership, and driving, from the GLX coming online. Maybe after the first phase is running they'll have a chance. But the CLF would have a pretty strong case for another lawsuit given the number of needless delays this project has taken.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

More buses, and perhaps a few more trains, during off-peak. Here is the list of mitigation items. Nothing exciting - the ones we're mostly likely to see are extensions of more GL trains to Lechmere (except during the 17 month closure...), and reduction of headways on the uselessly-infrequent buses.

I remember that list from 2012...the key now is to know what Davey has in mind!

Given not just the impending Lechmere shutdown, but also the {Government Center} closure, I'd nominate (from that list)

More off-peak Orange Line service (going from 10mins to 6min headways)
15 minute off-peak headways on:
91 & 87 (Union Square) & 80 ("along the GLX")

And extend the 87 and 80 to North Station when Lechmere is closed
 
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Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Number 8 Bus Route between JFK and the South End
14297899185_0fa4acf3dc_o.jpg
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

I've ridden that. What a mistake.

The 8, 19 and 47 all do kinda weird things to hit all the major nodes around the way, and swing by major institutions and businesses.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

So, with regard to the Green Line forum last night, it was a bit underwhelming. The T is still promising Green Line tracking by December. Stop consolidation is an "active discussion." Signal priority will come "eventually" and Brookline just voted funding for another study. New vehicles will have to wait until 2020: no answer on why they cost $7 million a pop. They are not considering proof of payment at this time. Initially they announced that they would not reconsider boarding procedure but maybe we argued them into revisiting the issue.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Number 8 Bus Route between JFK and the South End
14297899185_0fa4acf3dc_o.jpg

You know, if they had a bus that just ran from Dudley to JFK along that route, I wouldn't necessarily oppose it. For folks without a car and with mobility impairment (especially the elderly), the whole South Bay Center area is enormous. Yeah, I wouldn't want to have such a route be at the expense of a more direct long-distance route, but there are real benefits to near-door-to-door service, especially if it's anchored by major transit hubs at both ends.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

MBTA wireless: One of the largest end-to-end systems is getting even better

Dennis Keohane @DBKeohane
15 HOURS AGO


Alexandria, Va.-based InSite Wireless, which is currently performing the installation of wireless service on the MBTA, recently announced that they have partnered with all the major wireless providers — Sprint, AT&T, Verizon,T-Mobile, and Comcast (for WiFi) — on the project so that all mobile users will have access to the Internet and phone services while riding the T.

What’s more, the company is able to provide end-to-end service for mobile users throughout Boston’s subway system — on both the station platforms as well as in the tunnels.

InSite is a major player in distributed antenna systems (DAS) that bring wireless infrastructure solutions to complex locations, such as the Wynn Casino in Las Vegas, Target Field in Minnesota, and the Moscone Center in San Francisco.

The MBTA project is one of its largest to date, and much different than the highly publicized installation of DAS in New York City’s subway system. Unlike New York, Boston subway users will be able to use their wireless devices from the street, to the underground platform, and during their ride. In NYC, only the platforms are enabled for wireless connections; once a user goes into the subway tunnels, phone calls or Internet access is lost.

As Insite’s update statement said, “The MBTA DAS is one of the few neutral host systems in the U.S. that provides wireless coverage throughout the underground platforms and tunnels.”

Here is how the Insite Wireless service breaks down and will continue to be rolled out over the next year:

T Mobile/Sprint – has both 2G and 3G fully operational on all platforms and tunnels – 4G will be added by mid-2014 in all areas

AT&T – has 2G, 3G and 4G operational in all areas

Verizon – has 2G, 3G and 4G in the heart of Boston (Bowdoin, Government Center, State Street, Park Street & Downtown Crossing) and 2G and 4G in all outlying stations; 3G coming by mid-2014

Comcast XFinity WiFi – will be available on Green Line Station platforms by the end of 2014 – infrastructure being installed

The project, which has been going on for more than a decade, has faced some challenges, most notably the availability to work only during the hours the the T was shut down at night, as well as the ongoing changes in technology since the project began.

As David Weisman, Insite Wireless’s president and chief executive told me, when they started, they were working to bring better voice services to T riders, as they have been working, technology has advanced to the point where 3G and 4G wireless capabilities are the expected norm.

Weisman said that the project is a partnership “between us, and the MBTA and the wireless providers.” The MBTA will actually share in the revenue that the wireless providers will pay to have access to the underground antenna systems, which will go a long way toward defraying the costs of the project.

Weisman was pretty excited about the breadth of the project, even referencing the Kingston Trio song about the ride caught for eternity on the old “M.T.A.” saying, “Charlie may not be able to get off the MBTA, but he can call home, he can text home, he can watch a movie, and now access the Internet.”

BetaBoston

Might the MBTA actually do something better than its counterparts? When I'm downtown, I'd still take the MBTA to get around, but this will certainly make it much more enjoyable and convenient.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

The widespread wireless access underground is something the T has done very well with, for the most part.

I remember when it was turned on. One day, I think November, while riding the Green Line to, I think it was actually a DOT public meeting, I prepared for the signal to get cut off going underground ... and it didn't. No announcement, just a nice surprise.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

The widespread wireless access underground is something the T has done very well with, for the most part.

I remember when it was turned on. One day, I think November, while riding the Green Line to, I think it was actually a DOT public meeting, I prepared for the signal to get cut off going underground ... and it didn't. No announcement, just a nice surprise.

The service is so flawless on the Orange Line that you don't even think about it anymore. It is just there.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

So, with regard to the Green Line forum last night, it was a bit underwhelming. The T is still promising Green Line tracking by December. Stop consolidation is an "active discussion." Signal priority will come "eventually" and Brookline just voted funding for another study. New vehicles will have to wait until 2020: no answer on why they cost $7 million a pop. They are not considering proof of payment at this time. Initially they announced that they would not reconsider boarding procedure but maybe we argued them into revisiting the issue.


I used the Green line D branch during afternoon rush hour recently. As a frequent and longtime commuter from about 10 years ago and following extensive experience in Washington and London (Circle / District more similar to Green line) I was surprised at the inefficiency of the Green line and that it is now worse than 10 years ago.

The issues around proof of payment is particularly egregious. The outbound train I was on had an announcement before each stop saying "Only monthly pass holders could use rear doors to enter. All other payments had to be processed at the front door." At the stop all doors opened for a period for all to exit, and a few to enter, but not everyone, and then the rear doors closed and we waited while more walked to the front door and paid 'manually'.

So basically they are using proof of payment, without the proof but in addition to requiring 'cash' payers to come to the front and board one by one, a total lack of transparency / confusion for infrequent users, and annoying announcements for all the passengers.

The result was the worst of both worlds with increased dwell times and a far less efficient service and a dreadful public transit experience. I believe the Green line might be slowly becoming functionally broken. I would hesitate mightily before considering living and commuting on the Green line.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

^huge direct reason why i moved from cleveland circle to somerville. Green line degraded year on year and MBTA doesn't even pretend to care.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

The issues around proof of payment is particularly egregious. The outbound train I was on had an announcement before each stop saying "Only monthly pass holders could use rear doors to enter. All other payments had to be processed at the front door." At the stop all doors opened for a period for all to exit, and a few to enter, but not everyone, and then the rear doors closed and we waited while more walked to the front door and paid 'manually'.

Oh? That's better than usual, where they force EVERYONE to go up front, even the monthly passholders. And before that you have to wait for everyone to squeeze out of the train through the front door.

Honestly, I'm beyond arguing with the T on reason with this one. They don't listen to arguments about cost-effectiveness or efficiency. They would rather shoot themselves in the foot, and hurt all the riders too. The people who run the Green Line don't ride it and don't care.

I'm approaching it now as an accessibility issue -- because it is that also -- and that seems to be the only way to get them to listen. I've seen too many disabled patrons get maltreated by the T at this point, it's not right.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Oh? That's better than usual, where they force EVERYONE to go up front, even the monthly passholders. And before that you have to wait for everyone to squeeze out of the train through the front door.

Honestly, I'm beyond arguing with the T on reason with this one. They don't listen to arguments about cost-effectiveness or efficiency. They would rather shoot themselves in the foot, and hurt all the riders too. The people who run the Green Line don't ride it and don't care.

I'm approaching it now as an accessibility issue -- because it is that also -- and that seems to be the only way to get them to listen. I've seen too many disabled patrons get maltreated by the T at this point, it's not right.

I think your best hope (and I'm with you) is the success that Open Road Tolling is likely to have in improving both speed+capacity, and in raising revenue net of collection costs. I think the political class (and motoring constituents) whose lives get better without those barriers will see that fare gates are as ridiculous as the old fashioned toll gate arms (that lifted after your quarters registered). I think that once "swing voter" suburban motorists see barrier-free at work, they'll see how demanding the blood of "fare evaders" is best done with proof of payment, not barriers.

(to engage on the actual question of Open Road Tolling, we have a High Speed Tolls thread. I think the politics are relevant here, but I don't want the MBTA thread to go OT again)
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Oh? That's better than usual, where they force EVERYONE to go up front, even the monthly passholders. And before that you have to wait for everyone to squeeze out of the train through the front door.

Honestly, I'm beyond arguing with the T on reason with this one. They don't listen to arguments about cost-effectiveness or efficiency. They would rather shoot themselves in the foot, and hurt all the riders too. The people who run the Green Line don't ride it and don't care.

I'm approaching it now as an accessibility issue -- because it is that also -- and that seems to be the only way to get them to listen. I've seen too many disabled patrons get maltreated by the T at this point, it's not right.

Fair point. And I understand your frustration and I completely agree.

In my view, the issue is a political leadership one. The government funds the MBTA, in part, it has every right and opportunity to speak forcefully on this issue to insist on the optimal solution (proof of payment POP) and refute the flaws in the populist fare evasion argument. Political leaders who vote for the supplemental funding for the MBTA budget should be arguing for efficient service.

People don't complain about patronizing restaurants because 2% of customers 'dine n' dash', or take hotel bathrobes or liquor stores that get robbed, or 7-11's where teenagers steel soda, or any other example where not every customer pays their fair share. Who do you think pays for this? The rest of the customers. It's a cost to doing business, which everyone accepts.

Beyond this implementing a thoughtful proof of payment system subject to a straightforward cost-benefit analysis should keep this 'wastage and fare leakage' to a rational economic minimum. Almost all people who can afford to pay for a ticket, do. FWIW London estimates annual fare evasion costs at GBP 67m (2010) which was roughly 2% of revenue. A more detailed report on the bus system can be found here. Granted they have 'payment inspectors', but even in the heavy recession years of 2010 the evasion costs were estimated at 2.1% on just the bus network which is much easier to cheat than the Underground. And it is currently at 1%. (NB I did not thoroughly read this report, so I am happy for these conclusions to be verified and refuted if appropriate).


We should not be running a transport system which is operating in a completely outmoded and inefficient way. It's possible, that in a rational world that we should not run the Green line. Even for someone like me who massively supports and solely uses public transport. If, as a society, we are unwilling to make the system operate in a cost-efficient manner it might be better to stop supporting it. (Otherwise known as the 'Why can't we have nice things meme').

The fact is, as many people before me, including Matthew, have argued implementing these systems is not complicated. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. All of Europe, London, San Fran and other US places (I gather) have implemented a system that seems to work. I would be happy to argue that we do not have the (social capital) of other places, like Switzlerand or Scandanvia or Japan. Instead we ignore society and community in order to celebrate the selfish, which is ironic for 'Christian' country. But I digress.

The point is, that even in London which is fairly culturally similar, Anglo-Saxon and all that, they use a very effective system for their buses and Docklands Light Rail . Importantly they are also a society with a reasonable level of 'social equity'.

In fact, in addition to Green line POP, the MBTA as a whole should implement something very close to the London payment system. It works very well I think.

1. Use of a card based contactless system
- MBTA basically has this, although the implementation (i.e. getting a card) is beyond ridiculous
2. Tickets can be bought universally at retail outlets
3. No cash purchases of fares on board (bus or rapid transit or rail)
- see above, unfortunately cash single ride retail purchase it what's missing here, in addition to a reasonable number of station based machines
- however, this is critical to the bus boarding system in London
4. Proof of payment through readers either at a station stop or on board buses
- fundamentally I believe this would boil down to a cost issue, but ideally the MBTA could have long articulated buses with all door entry and 'touch and go'. This should improve transfers as well.
5. As a result there should never be a payment line at a door, there should be no 'paper tickets' in the system and there should never be manned with 'manual readers' (I can't find the link right now, but I am sure most of you know tha policy to which I refer).


The bottom line is this system, properly implemented, would vastly improve performance and efficiency by reducing dwell times, and therefore directly lower operating costs, but also indirectly increase ridership and thereby lower average costs through increased customer satisfaction (in other words a win-win-win). If you want to get on the Green line now, and not pay a fare, you can probably do it.

But shockingly, just when researching for this post, I read this post from a Boston com blogger who I would have thought would be a transit user, advocate and understand the issues at a basic level. But even here, she writes "(If you ask me, [the front door only policy is] a great idea, and I'm not just saying this for the sake of agreeing. It's important that everyone pay their share. I wholeheartedly endorse giving anyone who tries to piggyback on your fare what for.)" And quotes the T's spokesperson " that customers have actually pushed the agency to put these policies into place at public meetings across the city and state."

Perhaps education, and I mean 4th grade math and high school economics, is the way forward. Maybe we need to educate the public first. Or as I said earlier, maybe the US does not want nice things. There are other supportive points, but I went on too long, so ... for later.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

If, as a society, we are unwilling to make the system operate in a cost-efficient manner it might be better to stop supporting it.
A private operator might be able to do this, but, in public transit, you have to consider the equity argument, because you are also running as a social service. Basically, paying for the automobile's sins. This is a classic political balancing act for such agencies: do you optimize for efficiency on select routes, or do you spend that effort on coverage and equity? It's not a technical question, it's a political question. (for more I will direct you to Jarrett Walker)

Regarding Proof-of-Payment, this is not some European thing. It's widely implemented right here in the United States in places like San Francisco and NYC. And almost every modern light rail system built in the USA uses Proof-of-Payment.

For example, I just heard from Clevelands operations manager at a talk, and he said that when they replaced the #6 bus with the HealthLine BRT, they went from 28 drivers during peak down to 16 drivers during peak. And he credits off-board payment (PoP) for a lot of their operational efficiency. We could easily do the same on our Green and Silver Lines.

No, this has to do with willful ignorance. The MBTA could implement the same system San Francisco MUNI uses. We have nearly the same kind of equipment, the same kind of subway-surface trolley system, with lots of rubber-tyred supplement. Let me tell you, higher-ups at the MBTA don't even know what's going on at MUNI. I heard it from them personally. Many of them are completely unaware of what goes on in the rest of the country, much less the rest of the world. They are stuck in their own bubble with the blinders down, doing the same thing they've done for decades no matter how stupid and inefficient it is. I was hoping Dr. Scott could mix it up, but that bureaucracy is stubborn.

They still give the same stupid answer they gave that blogger at the Globe about the front door policy, even though it is demonstrably wrong. There is plenty of fare evasion right now, even with the stupid front door policy, and when the trains fall way behind on schedule they just let everyone on board for free just to get moving. So much for fare collection. And the MBTA outright LIES about the way proof-of-payment works: they claim it will result in more fare evasion when in fact the opposite is true, it will be easier to catch the fare evaders with PoP because right now it's easy as hell to jump a fare gate and there's no way to prove you did it unless they saw it happen.

It's a political problem, and it needs a political solution. Or a judicial one.
 

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