General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

statler said:
Ok, someone want to clue in the non-railroad, uh, aficionados as to what an all-Type 7 train is and why they would be illegal?
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Type 7 is the old Kinki-Sharyo fleet (c. 1987), which are not low-floor, handicap-accessible vehicles. Type 8 is the "new" Ansaldobreda partial low-floor fleet that has the automatic ramps and other various handicap features.

I remember reading somewhere that federal law requires that at least 1 car per set be handicap accessible. A 3-car set of all Type 7s would not meet this requirement. This is the reason that you almost always see a Type 7-Type 8 2-car set running. Occasionally they run a Type 8-Type 8 set, but not too often because of the need to have at least one Type 8 per set. This is especially relevant now that many GL stations have elevators.

Kinki-Sharyo Type 7 (in front, Type 8 coupled in back):
333605290_fdY6g-L.jpg


Ansaldobreda Type 8:
300px-MBTA_Green_Line_B.jpg
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Having one car in the set be accessible was a compromise worked out by the T over ADA-related lawsuits. I think they agreed to make just about every multiple car train with one Type 8 at least, rather than work on adding elevators to every station. There aren't as many Type 8s as Type 7s though, so I'm not surprised to hear that once in a while they fail at putting it together.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Arlington said:
Thanks everyone. It is a relief to know that's the physical reality. What about the virtual reality? Not being there and not having a paper or PDF, I was using three tools to plan a late night trip:

http://www.trackthet.com/index.php?routeId=80&dirId=80_0_var0&stopId=14150&update=true

and

the MassTransit iphone app.

and even the MBTA website, like:

http://www.mbta.com/schedules_and_m...ction=O&timing=W&RedisplayTime=Redisplay+Time
(which actually shows a 1:31 and a 1:32 am bus at the Hvd Busway, but for most buses doesn't show them in the Busway at all, what's up with that?)

None of the Tracker, App, or Website resources had a "w" (and no place to put one), and TrackTheT (and presumably the MBTA itself) has no indication in its "next bus" system showing that the buses were holding (such as showing the buses' time at the stop "holding")

Are there any electronic apps/systems that don't "lie"?

Seems to me that they could at least put the 1am bus back to a time that (even without a W) would give the virtual systems' users a better sense that the bus will be there.
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The apps go by the GPS onboard the buses. If the buses aren't powered on (running idle), they wont show up until the bus is switched on.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

BostonUrbEx said:
Is any work actually done after the last Saturday (technically early Sunday at that point)? I mean, Sunday is time & a half pay as it is, so who knows what the pay is for a public transit laborer union at 2am on a Sunday. Probably 3x pay or something. So I really see operating through normally closed hours on Sat-Sun night-morning as being cheaper than doing work, maybe.
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I can't remember the exact figure but I thought to add night hours it would balloons the MBTA's budget by 3 million dollars. I can't remember if that figure was per annum, per month or what. Afterhours is the only time the tracks can be repaired sinceBoston doesn't have express tracks like New York City to re-route trains through the same tunnel. Buses have to be returned to the depot to be cleaned, money counted, charlie card transactions from that bus uploaded to the system etc. before next day's service.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

I know there would be permits and some challenges, but is there any iron clad law that would prevent a private company from launching select late night bus routes? Perhaps the colleges would be inclined to do it. A BC bus that makes stops North End, Downtown and Kenmore. Woulda been good for me a couple years ago.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

A late night COF bus, looping from Fenway into Roxbury, would be a fantastic idea.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Is the MBTA allowed to adjust prices during Night Owl Services? For example, between the hours of 1-3, fare cost $8-$10 per trip, etc. It would still be competitive against a cab ride.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

KentXie said:
Is the MBTA allowed to adjust prices during Night Owl Services? For example, between the hours of 1-3, fare cost $8-$10 per trip, etc. It would still be competitive against a cab ride.
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IIRC, when they did Night Owl service trials, they stopped the service because the actual costs would have needed to be over $7. They assumed (stupidly) that no one would pay it.

I don't see why they couldn't implement higher fares at certain times. DC has their peak and peak-of-the-peak service.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

At least by the end of the experiment, Night Owl buses cost more than regular service and did not accept monthly passes.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

They could have also saved money by not slavishly following the rapid transit lines, which are not intended to be paralleled by buses. Instead they should have designed lines that were tailored to the particular needs of late night riders. They could have worked out a limited coverage area which required a minimum of staff, coordinated timed transfers in a central location at hourly or half-hourly pulses.

Then the costs would have been much more reasonable and probably could be covered by something like a $2 surcharge.

Although, I must say, the value of saving even just one life from a drunken driver may make quite a bit of subsidy worthwhile. And it would probably be much more than one life.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Matthew said:
Having one car in the set be accessible was a compromise worked out by the T over ADA-related lawsuits. I think they agreed to make just about every multiple car train with one Type 8 at least, rather than work on adding elevators to every station. There aren't as many Type 8s as Type 7s though, so I'm not surprised to hear that once in a while they fail at putting it together.
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I think I've seen more 7-7 combos in the last two weeks than the last six months combined, though, which strikes me as a bit odd. The 2010 Bluebook lists 115 Type 7s and 95 Type 8s so there really shouldn't be too many 7-7s (or 7-7-7s) needed at any given time, considering they are never operating near the full fleet anyway.

I guess there must just be more 8s in the shop than normal. Though I've also seen a three-car 7-7-8 configuration for the first time this past week and thought it was always supposed to be 7-8-7 for reasons of accessibility. Seems like something isn't quite right.

I recall reading that coupling the 7s and 8s together may be wearing down the vehicles at a higher rate, most likely because they were not meant to train-line and needed to be retrofitted in order to do so. Perhaps that might play a part - they don't want to unnecessarily wear down some of the older Type 7s even faster than they already are? I'll have to try and find that little bit of info again, though, as I'm not sure if it is accurate at all.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

omaja said:
I think I've seen more 7-7 combos in the last two weeks than the last six months combined, though, which strikes me as a bit odd. The 2010 Bluebook lists 115 Type 7s and 95 Type 8s so there really shouldn't be too many 7-7s (or 7-7-7s) needed at any given time, considering they are never operating near the full fleet anyway.

I guess there must just be more 8s in the shop than normal. Though I've also seen a three-car 7-7-8 configuration for the first time this past week and thought it was always supposed to be 7-8-7 for reasons of accessibility. Seems like something isn't quite right.

I recall reading that coupling the 7s and 8s together may be wearing down the vehicles at a higher rate, most likely because they were not meant to train-line and needed to be retrofitted in order to do so. Perhaps that might play a part - they don't want to unnecessarily wear down some of the older Type 7s even faster than they already are? I'll have to try and find that little bit of info again, though, as I'm not sure if it is accurate at all.
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The 7's are now four years overdue for their midlife overhaul. That's what's killing them. The T shortchanged that budget for years, and now it's on a molasses-slow schedule where we won't even see a pilot car for a year. And it'll take 4 years to complete the whole damn thing. And it's only for 86 cars; they have to exercise unfunded options to cover the rest. The 3600 series cars will be 30 years old by the time this finishes; 25 is the recommended date. Trolleys have to be rebuilt more frequently than heavy rail cars because of the more varied environments they travel in, the articulation, and the "looser" trainlining.

With it being highly unlikely that the 8's will survive for them to even bother with a midlife overhaul, the 7's are probably going to be around 40+ years and midlife overhaul #2. So...yeah, they're playing with fire here by burning that candle at both ends. And shortening the lifespan of each car with each extra year they push it on deferred maintenance.

They should run a whole lot better afterwards, and behave better in a 7-8-7 consist. This is a pretty damn substantial overhaul we're talking. The electronics swap to get the 8 trainlining installed was a quickie job, and kind of crude. That'll be perfected a bit when they update systems and tweak the whole car. Plus all the ones in the old paint scheme won't be rusting out so much anymore.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

OMFG!!!!!!!

WHDH posted this this morning!!!!!

580817_10151357258853332_1984633607_n.jpg


Finally!!!!
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Wow, it's like we're living in the future! And by future I mean 1998.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Pigs must be flying somewhere!
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

datadyne007 said:
OMFG!!!!!!!

WHDH posted this this morning!!!!!

580817_10151357258853332_1984633607_n.jpg


Finally!!!!
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Due to the fact that I am at work and the site is block, I can't see the picture. Can someone tell me what this red x in a white box is intended to show?
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

Does this help?

rKquD.jpg


If not, it is a picture of the announcement board showing two lines of countdown till next train.
 
Re: Driven By Customer 'Service' Parte Dos

statler said:
Does this help?

rKquD.jpg


If not, it is a picture of the announcement board showing two lines of countdown till next train.
Click to expand...

That is super awesome!
 
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