Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

[datadyne007]

A/B are already connected pre-security by the garage gerbil tubes (very efficiently)....are you sure you don't mean post-security?

No. There's a piece of the walkway system missing along Gate B1. You currently have to walk outside briefly. This walkway will provide a completely indoor trip from B West to A. It's a missing puzzle piece, if you will, that was not included in the Logan 2000 walkway system.

Notice the walkway system currently ends at the escalator:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...t!3m1!1s0x89e3701686f340bf:0x8b829fbcad92226a

 

[stellarfun]

Southwest moves from E to A on April 1, and I believe C-E Connector opens by June

 

[Arlington]

A321LR with new engines option (aka NEO) do not exist yet so they can't lease them.

Wet lease (crew + plane) somebody's LHR-capable plane and fit it out as JetBlue as possible. Needn't be an Airbus product. If this is a rare chance to grab an LHR slot, JetBlues unions will understand the need to be a little flexible in the short term.

 

[whighlander]

The United concourse is pretty darn nice, imo.



What type of work was required for Southwest's move over to Terminal A?


I have not flown international out of Boston directly in a couple of years. What is Terminal E like as far as crowding at the gate waiting areas and immigrations like?

Mass -- it depends on which flights and what time sector:

• for departure -- my impression over the last 5 or so trips on several different carriers and different times most of the day seems manageable except for when all the late evening flights to Europe are getting ready to go -- then it gets very crowded
  
• for arrival its much more variable as the big European flights are not scheduled to crowd -- but it depends so much on weather and traffic at the originating hubs as to which flights arrive when -- I've been creeping along in a big line waiting and suddenly TSA start waving essentially everyone with a US or UK passport through with only cursory inspection -- a bit like the old back-ups and Masspike passing everyone through the Tollbooth at Sturbridge before the Transponders got popular
  

Clearly more capacity is needed when the 380's start arriving and there are even times now when around 7/8 gates its almost like the Park Street Under Center Island Platform at Rush Hour

 

[denatlanta]

Southwest moves from E to A on April 1, and I believe C-E Connector opens by June

So who replaces Southwest in E?? That's a really nice space that SW is leaving! Also, if the connector from C to E will be completed shortly, has Massport installed escalators in the space where Southwest presently is up to the main departure area of E? Right now there is only a set of stairs and one small elevator that connects the two levels. Very inconvenient when traveling with kids, carry-ons, wheelchairs, etc.

 

[whighlander]

So who replaces Southwest in E?? That's a really nice space that SW is leaving! Also, if the connector from C to E will be completed shortly, has Massport installed escalators in the space where Southwest presently is up to the main departure area of E? Right now there is only a set of stairs and one small elevator that connects the two levels. Very inconvenient when traveling with kids, carry-ons, wheelchairs, etc.

Denatlanta -- I suspect that Massport and the contractors will probably use the former SW gate / holding area as temporary office / staging areas and even possibly as temporary gates / hold areas, etc., as needed while the construction work both C-E connector and A380 gates, etc, are being worked upon

In about 1 year plus -- when all the "newish E" as above is finished -- then we'll see possibly some further shuffles

Meanwhile don't expect any airline to officially go to where Southwest was previously located

 

[bostoneophyte]

Right now there is only a set of stairs and one small elevator that connects the two levels. Very inconvenient when traveling with kids, carry-ons, wheelchairs, etc.

^Yes and very disjointed from the international gates. I fly Southwest a lot and it took me a long time to realize the SW gates and international gates were even connected. Let's hope that when SW moves out they incorporate the SW security area and gates with the rest of terminal E!

 

[CSTH]

No. There's a piece of the walkway system missing along Gate B1. You currently have to walk outside briefly. This walkway will provide a completely indoor trip from B West to A.

Got it, thanks, I know it well, just slipped my mind....

 

[stellarfun]

denatlanta, as whighlander indicates, they will need the Southwest gates while the new A380 gates are being converted. After the E gate conversions, I expect they will be used by international carriers. Flights with Logan as a destination/origin turnaround tend to dwell at gates compared to flights where Logan is an intermediate stop.

The original date for beneficial occupancy was second quarter of 2015. But the contract, to Gilbane, was awarded on a later schedule.

However, the contract has several parts, of which the C to E connector seems to be the simplest to accomplish, so that may open earlier. And it could be Massport wants Southwest out of there so they can finish the interior fitting out.

http://www.massport.com/capitalprog...255-C2Logan Term C Connectors Information.pdf

 

[Equilibria]

denatlanta, as whighlander indicates, they will need the Southwest gates while the new A380 gates are being converted. After the E gate conversions, I expect they will be used by international carriers. Flights with Logan as a destination/origin turnaround tend to dwell at gates compared to flights where Logan is an intermediate stop.

The original date for beneficial occupancy was second quarter of 2015. But the contract, to Gilbane, was awarded on a later schedule.

However, the contract has several parts, of which the C to E connector seems to be the simplest to accomplish, so that may open earlier. And it could be Massport wants Southwest out of there so they can finish the interior fitting out.

http://www.massport.com/capitalprog...255-C2Logan Term C Connectors Information.pdf

To expand on that point - the current international E gates are built to support large aircraft going to Europe and Asia. As JetBlue (and Copa, but mostly JetBlue) builds service to Latin America, it benefits Logan to not have those smaller planes take up the larger gates. It wouldn't be a bad idea, though, to have them be dual-mode for arrivals so that they can be used as swing space if JetBlue needs some extra gates from time to time.

Also, I'm not thrilled that Massport didn't take the opportunity of the A renovation to build a sterile A/B connector. I get that it's not the highest priority of the connectors, but it would probably have saved some money and resulted in a cleaner-looking product.

 

[whighlander]

^Yes and very disjointed from the international gates. I fly Southwest a lot and it took me a long time to realize the SW gates and international gates were even connected. Let's hope that when SW moves out they incorporate the SW security area and gates with the rest of terminal E!

Bosneo -- there are more big changes coming to Term E -- as International traffic is very fast growing -- Massport is moving ahead with the FY-15-19 Cap Budget and while not all the funds are secured the $300,000 FY15-FY19 L338 TERMINAL E Expansion was approved by the Board last month -- formerly known as the West Concourse

http://www.massport.com/media/302714/fy15-fy19-capital-program.pdf

 

[Arlington]

Is there going to be a moment when it pays to just demolish the old Terminal D (the E1Alpha gates) and rebuild it at full height and get it "real" upper & lower roadway curbs?

 

[Equilibria]

Is there going to be a moment when it pays to just demolish the old Terminal D (the E1Alpha gates) and rebuild it at full height and get it "real" upper & lower roadway curbs?

Doubtful, IMO. The only reason to build it to full height would be that it needs high-capacity international arrivals. That could happen at some point, but it would result in lost gate capacity (you couldn't fit more than 2 widebodies in there, while you get 5 narrowbodies), and Boston will always have A320 and E190 international destinations on Jetblue and others that can use the gates as they are.

Upper and lower roadways would imply the need for dedicated landside passenger facilities, and I don't think check-in and baggage claim space is at a premium at Logan right now. Since they're not adding many more gates, it probably won't develop in the foreseeable future.

After the current connectors comes B/C, and that might develop into a United/B-style concourse with a couple new gates (plus replacements for C40-42), but after that the airport might be at build-out.

 

[atlantaden]

denatlanta, as whighlander indicates, they will need the Southwest gates while the new A380 gates are being converted. After the E gate conversions, I expect they will be used by international carriers. Flights with Logan as a destination/origin turnaround tend to dwell at gates compared to flights where Logan is an intermediate stop.

Sure, makes sense but only if some of those present Southwest gates are refitted with some sort of glassed-in secure walkway (similar to what was installed at security separating the incoming security line from the Southwest holding area) for arriving international passengers to walk through on their way to the customs/passport control area of Terminal E. Unless of course, this area will be used for international departures only. But again, I ask, what's the plan to make a fairly seamless, functional access route for passengers from the present lower Southwest area up to the main Terminal E holding area? As it stands, the two current access points are very passengers unfriendly, long stairs and a very small elevator.

 

[Equilibria]

Not a real source, but someone on A.net who sounds knowledgeable has said that El Al will be operating out of E1A/B (shutting B when the widebody is on A) due to their security requirements, so those two must be connected to FIS somehow. E1C-E will be shut for the time being before being handed to JetBlue for domestic ops after the connector opens.

Better info than we had...

 

[whighlander]

Sure, makes sense but only if some of those present Southwest gates are refitted with some sort of glassed-in secure walkway (similar to what was installed at security separating the incoming security line from the Southwest holding area) for arriving international passengers to walk through on their way to the customs/passport control area of Terminal E. Unless of course, this area will be used for international departures only. But again, I ask, what's the plan to make a fairly seamless, functional access route for passengers from the present lower Southwest area up to the main Terminal E holding area? As it stands, the two current access points are very passengers unfriendly, long stairs and a very small elevator.

When you look at the documents associated with the A-380 part of the work involves stairs and elevators at the other end of E from the A-380 gates

 

[atlantaden]

Thanks guys! Just found this article and in it states that the connector between C and E will be a connector that passengers use after they exit security? Is this correct? This is the first I heard of this, I was under the impression that passengers who deplaned in C could pass directly to E without leaving security and visa versa for passengers from E to C.


http://boston.about.com/od/transpor...-Renovations-to-Logan-Airports-Terminal-E.htm

 

[Equilibria]

Thanks guys! Just found this article and in it states that the connector between C and E will be a connector that passengers use after they exit security? Is this correct? This is the first I heard of this, I was under the impression that passengers who deplaned in C could pass directly to E without leaving security and visa versa for passengers from E to C.


http://boston.about.com/od/transpor...-Renovations-to-Logan-Airports-Terminal-E.htm

Very much inside security. See slide 9 for the whole picture:

https://www.massport.com/media/296200/PFC-Consultation-Feb-2015-PUBLIC-VERSION.pdf

Highlights:

- All gates in E will be renamed, it seems. No more A/B/C. Current gates E1-A/B will become E1 and E2 with FIS access and will be retained for international use (El Al).

- Current gates E1-C/D/E will be renumbered into Terminal C as C8, C9, and C10. There will be no physical barrier between E and C. These would presumably be compensation to JetBlue for the loss of C40-42.

- A new (small) food court will serve all 5 former E1 gates.

- Whole thing is done in November.

I'm not sure why they didn't just turn Terminal E into Terminal D if they were going to renumber everything anyway, but I guess they'd had it with that argument.

 

[datadyne007]

I'm not sure why they didn't just turn Terminal E into Terminal D if they were going to renumber everything anyway, but I guess they'd had it with that argument.

Purely a signage thing. Signs are on the T maps, in books, etc in addition to all over the airport. It would be an enormous cost to change the letter. We're stuck with E for good.

 

[atlantaden]

Equilibria, thanks so much, your post just about sums it up for that side of E. Great find! So my final question will be, do you think that the security entrance, formally used for Southwest, will be eliminated since most of their gates will now be used by Jet Blue whose passengers pass through the security entrance in Terminal C.