Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

atlantaden said:
This is true but the only way to get to the upper level International departure area of Terminal E from the lower, mid-level where Southwest/AirTran departures/arrivals gates are located is either using a set of stairs or a very small elevator, neither of which is good for people with carry-ons. Few people want to lug their carry-ons up or down a flight of stairs or wait in line for an elevator that's large enough for only a few people and their luggage (and said elevator not in plain sight). I haven't seen any evidence of MassPort correcting this problem and it is a problem. Unless, of course, this isn't the connection that MassPort has in mind between the two terminals.
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BOS isn't ideal, but I don't see that JFK is any better. I'd call it "even" as far as connecting goes (or slightly in BOS' favor just for compactness and all indoors).

I think that BOS works for the other reason cited: JetBlue's whole-metro share of BOS traffic is now 25% (no competition from an "EWR") and it has superior connections to other East Coast population centers.
 
Something I haven't heard mentioned (and forgive me if I just haven't seen this) is the "Fly America" provision that anyone traveling using USG funds has to observe (i.e., we have to fly the transoceanic segement on a US-flagged carrier which not only means US metal, but can also be satisfied by a code-shared flight on a foreign carrier). Out of Boston, I'd be surprised if less than 40% of the traffic heading to Africa (where a LOT of Emirates traffic connects to and a good amount of Turkish connects to as well) does not have to observe Fly America. I don't see how these carriers will make a go of it if they are not code-sharing (on the transoceanic segments) with some US carrier.
 
Massport has released the numbers for August:

3,020,074 passengers flew through Logan during the month.
2,498,813 were domestic
513,087 were international

YTD stands at 20,399,671 which represents a 2.4% increase over YTD through August in 2012.
 
mass88 said:
Massport has released the numbers for August:

3,020,074 passengers flew through Logan during the month.
2,498,813 were domestic
513,087 were international

YTD stands at 20,399,671 which represents a 2.4% increase over YTD through August in 2012.
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They now listed the Panama City flight under Central American traffic instead of Caribbean.

I did some quick math and created load factors for the period this flight has started. All numbers assume 737-700 was flown.

July 2013 - 82.6%
Aug 2013 - 89.1%
Overall - 86.3%

Copa has been filling the plane with a decent amount of people though most likely at some lower than average fares.
 
Tombstoner said:
Something I haven't heard mentioned (and forgive me if I just haven't seen this) is the "Fly America" provision that anyone traveling using USG funds has to observe (i.e., we have to fly the transoceanic segement on a US-flagged carrier which not only means US metal, but can also be satisfied by a code-shared flight on a foreign carrier). Out of Boston, I'd be surprised if less than 40% of the traffic heading to Africa (where a LOT of Emirates traffic connects to and a good amount of Turkish connects to as well) does not have to observe Fly America. I don't see how these carriers will make a go of it if they are not code-sharing (on the transoceanic segments) with some US carrier.
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JetBlue has applied to codeshare on any USA-Dubai flight on Emirates and the whole Emirates network should happen in the future. I don't know Turkish Airlines status with codesharing on the Boston route. US Airways does have a codeshare on the JFK and L.A.-Istanbul routes flown by Turkish.

I think the only transatlantic flights that do not have a codeshare with a US airline are the Icelandair flights to Reykjavík.
 
Tombstoner said:
Something I haven't heard mentioned (and forgive me if I just haven't seen this) is the "Fly America" provision that anyone traveling using USG funds has to observe (i.e., we have to fly the transoceanic segement on a US-flagged carrier which not only means US metal, but can also be satisfied by a code-shared flight on a foreign carrier). Out of Boston, I'd be surprised if less than 40% of the traffic heading to Africa (where a LOT of Emirates traffic connects to and a good amount of Turkish connects to as well) does not have to observe Fly America. I don't see how these carriers will make a go of it if they are not code-sharing (on the transoceanic segments) with some US carrier.
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JetBlue has applied to codeshare on any USA-Dubai flight on Emirates and the whole Emirates network should happen in the future. I don't know Turkish Airlines status with codesharing on the Boston route. US Airways does have a codeshare on the JFK and L.A.-Istanbul routes flown by Turkish.

I think the only transatlantic flights that do not have a codeshare with a US airline are the Icelandair flights to Reykjavík.
 
Tombstoner said:
Something I haven't heard mentioned (and forgive me if I just haven't seen this) is the "Fly America" provision that anyone traveling using USG funds has to observe (i.e., we have to fly the transoceanic segement on a US-flagged carrier which not only means US metal, but can also be satisfied by a code-shared flight on a foreign carrier). Out of Boston, I'd be surprised if less than 40% of the traffic heading to Africa (where a LOT of Emirates traffic connects to and a good amount of Turkish connects to as well) does not have to observe Fly America. I don't see how these carriers will make a go of it if they are not code-sharing (on the transoceanic segments) with some US carrier.
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Emirates (and Turkish, for that matter) are primarily focused on taking BOS-India and BOS-Southeast Asia traffic that flows via Europe. Dubai is not at all convenient for really any significant BOS-Africa route. Turkish will also be able to conveniently serve BOS-Middle East. There's plenty of non-government traffic to go around.
 
omaja said:
Emirates (and Turkish, for that matter) are primarily focused on taking BOS-India and BOS-Southeast Asia traffic that flows via Europe. Dubai is not at all convenient for really any significant BOS-Africa route. Turkish will also be able to conveniently serve BOS-Middle East. There's plenty of non-government traffic to go around.
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The two main hubs to SE Asia from BOS would be DXB or NRT.

JFK - DXB is a 13h flight, so I'll assume BOS - DXB is 13h (+/- 15 minutes) for this thought experiment. BOS - NRT is also 13h so we just have to look at the flight times from NRT and DXB.

The exact middle point between DXB and NRT is BKK, which is a 6h30m flight from both of them. So anything North or East of BKK would be quicker served by NRT, while anything South or West would be quicker served by DXB. This includes India, Myanmar, and Western China. Singapore is roughly in between the two, although slightly closer to NRT.

Though if you're going to a major city (HKG for example) that has direct flights from JFK, it would be much quicker to transfer in NYC than fly to NRT for example.
 
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FenwayResident said:
The two main hubs to SE Asia from BOS would be DXB or NRT.
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SE Asia can be served from Europe (especially Heathrow and Istanbul) as well.

FenwayResident said:
The exact middle point between DXB and NRT is BKK, which is a 6h30m flight from both of them. So anything North or East of BKK would be quicker served by NRT, while anything South or West would be quicker served by DXB. This includes India, Myanmar, and Western China. Singapore is roughly in between the two, although slightly closer to NRT.
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There's not many SE Asia routes that Emirates and JAL will compete on from BOS. Remember that JAL's network is somewhat limited at Narita and Emirates network at DXB is always growing. For example: you cannot get a convenient inbound return flight doing Manila-Tokyo-Boston without eating a 15 hour layover in Japan. You are better off doing a 2-stop itinerary on the return through Chicago, LAX or JFK. Emirates SE Asia connections with the Boston flight aren't so great right now but I believe this flight time will be changing once the runway work at Dubai is complete.

Here's a list on what they compete on. I did some pricing in March and Emirates averages about 500 dollars less on any one-stop route.

Singapore
Bangkok
Kuala Lumpur (via Malaysia Airlines who codeshares on the BOS-NRT flight)
Jakarta
Ho Chi Minh City
Hanoi

These destinations are stretches for Emirates since they add about 1500-2000 miles each way for your trip but someone will do it for the right price.

Manila
Hong Kong
Guangzhou


FenwayResident said:
Though if you're going to a major city (HKG for example) that has direct flights from JFK, it would be much quicker to transfer in NYC than fly to NRT for example.
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You have to be careful about connecting in NYC in winter.
 
Some more news today for BOS:

1) Boston-Savannah service is happening at 1x daily. No official announcement is made but flight is bookable and starts February 13,2013. The flight most likely is being served with E-190.

Departs BOS 11:10 Arrives SAV 13:46
Departs SAV 14:25 Arrives BOS 16:43


2) JetBlue is applying to codeshare with Emirates on Boston-Dubai. It now has approval for all of Emirates' other US routes. The codeshare does come up on ITA and ofter software search engines but not on jetblue.com yet.

3) Turkish has changed Boston-Istanbul A333 to A343 which means less seats overall (289 to 270) but more 6-8 more business class seats.
 
omaja said:
Emirates (and Turkish, for that matter) are primarily focused on taking BOS-India and BOS-Southeast Asia traffic that flows via Europe. Dubai is not at all convenient for really any significant BOS-Africa route. Turkish will also be able to conveniently serve BOS-Middle East. There's plenty of non-government traffic to go around.
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I would suggest that there is significant USG-funded traffic to both India and SE Asia and I know for a fact that a lot of US-to-Africa traffic (especially to East Africa--Ethiopia/Tanzania/Kenya) is routed through Dubai (all the Middle Eastern airlines have massive (and growing) presence throughout Africa and Turkish is right behind them). I'm on a flight from Addis to Paris and on to Boston via Dubai next month--seems a bit inconvenient, but a competitive price and good frequency between Dubai and European hubs (the direct Ethiopian flight to Paris is only a few times a week). I can't claim that USG-funded travel is huge everywhere, but it is significant throughout the developing world and without codesharing with a US carrier, I think most foreign airlines would have a tough go of it.
 
Tombstoner said:
I would suggest that there is significant USG-funded traffic to both India and SE Asia and I know for a fact that a lot of US-to-Africa traffic (especially to East Africa--Ethiopia/Tanzania/Kenya) is routed through Dubai (all the Middle Eastern airlines have massive (and growing) presence throughout Africa and Turkish is right behind them). I'm on a flight from Addis to Paris and on to Boston via Dubai next month--seems a bit inconvenient, but a competitive price and good frequency between Dubai and European hubs (the direct Ethiopian flight to Paris is only a few times a week). I can't claim that USG-funded travel is huge everywhere, but it is significant throughout the developing world and without codesharing with a US carrier, I think most foreign airlines would have a tough go of it.
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Agree with you on Emirates grabbing some Africa traffic but Turkish Airlines has the most destinations in Africa by far. The connections through Istanbul also work better for Boston especially Nairobi the biggest non-Cape Verdean - African market from Boston.

Also your comment about USG funded travel does ring true as it was mentioned as being important reason for a codeshare in the press release about the Jetblue Emirates partnership. http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=131045&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1861750&highlight=
 
Sorry if this is a re-post, but 50 BOS destinations non-stop on one carrier (JetBlue) must be a jet-era record. Was anyone else ever that big?

For JetBlue: what's left? They must be getting pretty far "down the list" and into places that are too small to have had service (like SAV) or that already have point-to-point (like Delta's flying from CMH to BOS (Columbus OH))

For Delta: how long before you give up on big, empty terminal A? Seems like they'd be better off financially just letting JetBlue move in and take over the payments on the place, and move to a "right-sized" place elsewhere.
 
JetBlue would never go to terminal A because they want to be next to the international terminal that they will take and feed traffic to.

I would think with the growth in logan's internation options (and future growth in direct asia connections likely to come) jetBlue can be a strong feeder airline for midwest traffic. Kansas City, Nashville, Minneapolis etc. and serve as the layover for people continuing on to Europe and AMEA and not just straight O&D traffic.

I would like to see jetBlue open more Canada cities, but I dont know the regulations on this. I would like to see more direct, low fare options to Montreal, Halifax, Vancouver. Anyone have any insight if this is possible?
 
choo said:
JetBlue would never go to terminal A because they want to be next to the international terminal that they will take and feed traffic to.
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Never is a long time. If the terminal solves enough operational problems and opens large enough markets, I suspect they'd make Terminal A work somehow. Could JetBlue:
- Get customs on the "outer A"
- Run an airside connector bus
- Make more "Canada" and Shannon Ireland work (with customs done "there")

After all, Delta seemed to have done the math and decided that under some scenario, Terminal A worked (and, at this point, we have to say that JetBlue is probably living life close to what Delta imagined). Having a terminal that can't hold all your customers is pretty dire too, and can you really say it will "never" come to that (especially with Southwest digging in at all the "Old D" gates in between)
 
Southwest growth in 'D' challenges JetBlue's midwest expansion.

Never is too strong, but I see them trying to do some more optimization and expansion in C before jumping to A. (someone needs to raise the roof 5 feet). So not never, but a decade I think.
 
JetBlue will use spare E gates when needed before having any operation in A. Terminal B would be the next option but that terminal will be chock full pretty soon once the shuffle happens. If they were to really outgrow C then Southwest winds up getting the sweet incentive deal to leave for A.

For future destinations:

Canada is just too expensive landing fee and tax wise and Porter is a strong contender in Boston-Toronto market especially with their be able to land within a quick ferry to downtown Toronto.

They had their chance on Kansas City and St Louis in the Midwest and whiffed. I don't know if they could stimulate enough traffic to make a Des Moines or Omaha route work.

JetBlue would be better off going to higher traffic markets they are not in yet Atlanta, Detroit, Minneapolis and believe it or not Miami. Restarting Columbus and either Newport News or Norfolk in Virginia would also be good E-190 routes. One other wild card would be San Antonio which I believe is the largest destination traffic wise that is not served from Boston.
 
adamh8297 said:
One other wild card would be San Antonio which I believe is the largest destination traffic wise that is not served from Boston.
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With big military-industrial sector, and "mid-continent" isolation, San Antonio would be the kind of city that JetBlue could do well in if it could launch to all the big coastal O&Ds at once (SFO, LAX/LGB, BOS, JFK, DCA(!)). You'd think they could storm into SAT based on long-hauls even though its a Southwest city today.
 
People should remember that Delta is still a major player in the Boston market. While JetBlue offers the most daily flights and destinations, they do not completely dominate the passenger flows through Logan.

I believe (according the previous articles), that JetBlue currently offers non-stop flights to 20 of the top 25 cities from Boston.

The ones that stick out that lack JetBlue service:

Detroit
Atlanta
Minneapolis/St. Paul
St. Louis

To a lesser extent:

Indianapolis
Kansas City
Columbus
Louisville
Nashville
Salt Lake City
 
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