Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

mass88 said:
People should remember that Delta is still a major player in the Boston market. While JetBlue offers the most daily flights and destinations, they do not completely dominate the passenger flows through Logan.
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Yes, but when did Delta last add a destination? They seem to have their focus elsewhere.

And, yes, what makes Delta formidable is that they (or Southwest hub) are the one at the other end of the markets that JetBlue has feared to enter:
Detroit (Delta)
Atlanta (Delta)
Minneapolis/St. Paul (Delta)
St. Louis (Southwest)

To a lesser extent:

Indianapolis (Delta point to point)
Kansas City (Southwest)
Columbus (Delta point to point)
Louisville
Nashville (Southwest)
Salt Lake City (Delta)
 
^I think jetBlue had a direct to Salt Lake at one point. I could see that coming back seasonal (they are big on pushing their getaway packages and the SLC economy is one of the fastest growing in the nation). As for much of the midwest cities, I see many of them declining rather than rising in importance and don't think jetBlue will focus growth there (although not to say it won't pick up some opportunities).

I flew southwest from STL a few weeks ago and that airport is a fair bit of an hub for them it seemed. The flight was still ~70% full.
 
choo said:
I flew southwest from STL a few weeks ago and that airport is a fair bit of an hub for them it seemed. The flight was still ~70% full.
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They've done their usual thorough job of replacing a failed "legacy" hub with their own service to any market that can support a 737, just like they did at Nashville.
 
Arlington said:
Yes, but when did Delta last add a destination? They seem to have their focus elsewhere.

And, yes, what makes Delta formidable is that they (or Southwest hub) are the one at the other end of the markets that JetBlue has feared to enter:
Detroit (Delta)
Atlanta (Delta)
Minneapolis/St. Paul (Delta)
St. Louis (Southwest)

To a lesser extent:

Indianapolis (Delta point to point)
Kansas City (Southwest)
Columbus (Delta point to point)
Louisville
Nashville (Southwest)
Salt Lake City (Delta)
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Delta is no different than the other legacy carriers in that they have cut almost all point to point flying from their non-hub cities. Boston, like a lot of other cities, has seen the legacy networks be cut down to hub cities only. However Boston still sees a fair amount of non-hub flying on US Airways and Delta. American has really cut down Boston over the last 10-11 years.

choo said:
^I think jetBlue had a direct to Salt Lake at one point. I could see that coming back seasonal (they are big on pushing their getaway packages and the SLC economy is one of the fastest growing in the nation). As for much of the midwest cities, I see many of them declining rather than rising in importance and don't think jetBlue will focus growth there (although not to say it won't pick up some opportunities).

I flew southwest from STL a few weeks ago and that airport is a fair bit of an hub for them it seemed. The flight was still ~70% full.
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St. Louis had their death watch begin once America bought TWA. It really was only a matter of time before American would absorb TWA and breakup St. Louis. St. Louis, Memphis, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati are all recent examples of sizable hubs being dismantled post mergers.
 
Also, Southwest has come into Boston and seemingly done pretty well. They've added non-stop flights to fill some holes left by legacies with year round, daily non-stop flights to Nashville, St. Louis and Kansas City.

They're also began a war of sorts by adding daily non-stop flights to Denver and Houston (Hobby) from Boston. They really have a nice little network.

I am surprised they're not going to give Florida more of a go. JetBlue has that market, sans Miami, to themselves for the most part.
 
mass88 said:
Also, Southwest has come into Boston and seemingly done pretty well. They've added non-stop flights to fill some holes left by legacies with year round, daily non-stop flights to Nashville, St. Louis and Kansas City.

They're also began a war of sorts by adding daily non-stop flights to Denver and Houston (Hobby) from Boston. They really have a nice little network.
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Its amazing how big they are in Boston. When combined with AirTran, they actually serve more destinations that United or American and they have 4 routes to themselves: St Louis, Kansas City, Milwaukee, and Nashville. Also they will be serving Dallas Love Field once the Wright Amendment goes away.


mass88 said:
I am surprised they're not going to give Florida more of a go. JetBlue has that market, sans Miami, to themselves for the most part.
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Southwest covers Florida through Manchester and Providence.
 
Arlington said:
Sorry if this is a re-post, but 50 BOS destinations non-stop on one carrier (JetBlue) must be a jet-era record. Was anyone else ever that big?

For JetBlue: what's left? They must be getting pretty far "down the list" and into places that are too small to have had service (like SAV) or that already have point-to-point (like Delta's flying from CMH to BOS (Columbus OH))
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Lots of international options still available. Mexico City perhaps?
 
FenwayResident said:
The two main hubs to SE Asia from BOS would be DXB or NRT.

JFK - DXB is a 13h flight, so I'll assume BOS - DXB is 13h (+/- 15 minutes) for this thought experiment. BOS - NRT is also 13h so we just have to look at the flight times from NRT and DXB.

The exact middle point between DXB and NRT is BKK, which is a 6h30m flight from both of them. So anything North or East of BKK would be quicker served by NRT, while anything South or West would be quicker served by DXB. This includes India, Myanmar, and Western China. Singapore is roughly in between the two, although slightly closer to NRT.

Though if you're going to a major city (HKG for example) that has direct flights from JFK, it would be much quicker to transfer in NYC than fly to NRT for example.
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As I mentioned before, once Korean Air gets their 787s, Boston seems like one of the top spots on their list to deploy this aircraft. It would really give them and travelers a great advantage of the restrictions of NRT to connect through ICN. Korean really is pushing itself in terms of size and network, especially in Asia-Pacific market.

Will Emirates and Turkish offer lounges?

Also, on JetBlue expansion, any chance they could go to Rochester and or Syracuse?
 
Oakley said:
As I mentioned before, once Korean Air gets their 787s, Boston seems like one of the top spots on their list to deploy this aircraft. It would really give them and travelers a great advantage of the restrictions of NRT to connect through ICN. Korean really is pushing itself in terms of size and network, especially in Asia-Pacific market.

Will Emirates and Turkish offer lounges?

Also, on JetBlue expansion, any chance they could go to Rochester and or Syracuse?
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Lounge wise I think the two new airlines to Logan will not have lounges and will squat in one of the others. I have no idea if there is space available or not for an extra lounge.

Emirates only has lounges in San Francisco and JFK out of their US destinations.
I think Turkish only has their Istanbul lounge and that is it. They will definitely send folks to Lufthansa's. Who knows what Emirates will do (Use virgin's possibly?)
 
FenwayResident said:
The two main hubs to SE Asia from BOS would be DXB or NRT.

JFK - DXB is a 13h flight, so I'll assume BOS - DXB is 13h (+/- 15 minutes) for this thought experiment. BOS - NRT is also 13h so we just have to look at the flight times from NRT and DXB.

The exact middle point between DXB and NRT is BKK, which is a 6h30m flight from both of them. So anything North or East of BKK would be quicker served by NRT, while anything South or West would be quicker served by DXB. This includes India, Myanmar, and Western China. Singapore is roughly in between the two, although slightly closer to NRT.

Though if you're going to a major city (HKG for example) that has direct flights from JFK, it would be much quicker to transfer in NYC than fly to NRT for example.
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Sorry, missed this post from awhile back. Two comments:

1. I know everyone loves to proclaim the virtues of the DXB hub, but I'm not sure how it managed to become one of the top hubs for BOS-SE Asia when the route doesn't start for another five months or so. :)

2. Even with the nonstop BOS-NRT, there's no doubt that more BOS-SE Asia traffic flows over domestic (DTW/ORD/IAD/EWR/SFO/LAX) or European (LHR/FRA/AMS/CDG) hubs given the sheer volume of seat inventory and connecting opportunities. A daily 787 to NRT and daily 777 to DXB aren't going to dramatically shift that.
 
Speaking of- jetBlue to go directly at Delta hub in Detroit. Picking an opportune time to announce a connection between the two.

JetBlue to launch Boston-Detroit nonstop service

By Chris Reidy | GLOBE STAFF OCTOBER 15, 2013

JetBlue Airways, which has more than twice as many nonstop destinations as any other airline at Logan International Airport, said Tuesday that Detroit will become its 51st nonstop destination from Boston.

Only about a week ago, JetBlue said it will start flying nonstop from Boston to Savannah, Ga.

In a press release, JetBlue said its Boston-Detroit service is scheduled to begin March 10.

JetBlue said it will serve the Boston-Detroit route three times daily with its 100-seat Embraer 190 aircraft.


In a statement, JetBlue chief executive Dave Barger, ‘‘We wanted to bring more competition to the Boston-Detroit market, adding to the great baseball series between the Detroit Tigers and Boston Red Sox, and last night’s Detroit-Boston NHL game.’’

(Actually, that hockey game was a matinee. Still, Barger, a Detroit native, was probably happy with the outcome. The Red Wings beat the Bruins 3-2.)

From now through Oct. 17, one-way ticket flights from Boston to Detroit are on for sale for as low as $85 for travel March 10 to May 22. (Blackout dates: April 17-28.)
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choo said:
Speaking of- jetBlue to go directly at Delta hub in Detroit. Picking an opportune time to announce a connection between the two.
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Whew! I'm sure JetBlue knows the stakes are high on this: if it works, it means they can push onward into those other (big) hub markets. If it doesn't, BOS will have to content itself with a trickle of minor/marginal markets.
 
I wonder at what point JetBlue reaches their max for growth at Boston in terms of the facilities being at capacity?

In any event, this is good news to add some needed competition on the Boston - Detroit route.

I am going to guess this works out. They're starting with 3 daily flights which will help attract business customers.

Assuming this works, JetBlue could open up a number of Midwest/Southeast markets with 190s out of Boston. Louisville, Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis, etc.
 
choo said:
Speaking of- jetBlue to go directly at Delta hub in Detroit. Picking an opportune time to announce a connection between the two.
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See also http://blog.jetblue.com/index.php/2013/10/15/were-going-to-detroit-michigan/

Their Blog notes the significance of this service starting the same day as trips on their partner Emirates and how it taps Detroit's large Arab-American population

Arrive

BOS-DTW
7:30 a.m. 9:49 a.m.
4:00 p.m. 6:17 p.m.
7:35 p.m. 9:52 p.m.

DTW-BOS
6:30 a.m. 8:16 a.m.
10:30 a.m. 12:16 p.m.
6:55 p.m. 8:43 p.m.
 
mass88 said:
I wonder at what point JetBlue reaches their max for growth at Boston in terms of the facilities being at capacity?

In any event, this is good news to add some needed competition on the Boston - Detroit route.

I am going to guess this works out. They're starting with 3 daily flights which will help attract business customers.

Assuming this works, JetBlue could open up a number of Midwest/Southeast markets with 190s out of Boston. Louisville, Cleveland, Columbus,
Indianapolis, etc.
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They could open Minneapolis as well.

Louisville goes from 75 PDEW in winter to 115 in summer - it may be a tough one for JetBlue to serve but there may be some people who fly directly into Cincinatti and drive. You could also grab some extra folks going to Lexington and not wanting to do 1-stop. (BOS-LEX is about 20 PDEW year round).
 
BOS-MKE used to have Frontier and AirTran, and now it's only Southwest. Not the largest market, but maybe it would work for JB?
 
Arlington said:
Whew! I'm sure JetBlue knows the stakes are high on this: if it works, it means they can push onward into those other (big) hub markets. If it doesn't, BOS will have to content itself with a trickle of minor/marginal markets.
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It's a great move, and offers competition to Delta. I would love to see JetBlue go back into Atlanta, though. Is the Emirates' Boston route going to be that big of impact?
 
^ I feel like Boston become a viable hub to being the interim stop to middle east/india for people that would have to connect through a hub anyway. If you had to do Raleigh/Durham- stop- dubai. I would personally want to connect through Boston over Chicago or Atlanta. I personally hate those airports, they are too big and a cluster. Detroit as an airport is actually very easy to navigate with Delta. I don't know if they have direct to the middle east from there tho.
 
choo said:
^ I feel like Boston become a viable hub to being the interim stop to middle east/india for people that would have to connect through a hub anyway. If you had to do Raleigh/Durham- stop- dubai. I would personally want to connect through Boston over Chicago or Atlanta. I personally hate those airports, they are too big and a cluster. Detroit as an airport is actually very easy to navigate with Delta. I don't know if they have direct to the middle east from there tho.
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What about JFK? I feel like that airport has more amenities than BOS has if I had to sit around for a substantial layover. Although BOS is close enough to the city where if you had a 3+ hour layover you could take the train into town for a few drinks with time to spare.
 
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