MA Casino Developments

[TheRifleman]

Who would pay for a hotel room at mgm Springfield? This place has Atlantic city bankruptcy written all over it.

I haven't been their in a long time but I don't have fond memories of Springfield: Is it still a dump?

 

[617]

I haven't been their in a long time but I don't have fond memories of Springfield: Is it still a dump?

Only driven through...on the highway haha

But it doesn't really have a draw besides an insurance company and basketball hall of fame.

 

[tangent]

Only driven through...on the highway haha

But it doesn't really have a draw besides an insurance company and basketball hall of fame.

BB Hall of fame gets 220,000 visitors per year. So that is a good start. Or would be if MGM was actually serious

 

[Arlington]

BB Hall of fame gets 220,000 visitors per year. So that is a good start. Or would be if MGM was actually serious

How many BBHOF visitors are overnight, though. Seems like a day trip or "on our way to elsewhere" kinda stop. Six Flags is huge too, but the question is can those markets be integrated with a big casino hotel.

 

[tangent]

How many BBHOF visitors are overnight, though. Seems like a day trip or "on our way to elsewhere" kinda stop. Six Flags is huge too, but the question is can those markets be integrated with a big casino hotel.

Well, a shiny high rise MGM hotel would have helped

 

[393b40]

I always assumed the MGM hotel component was going to be dropped once the plan was voter approved. Like seriously, why would you stay there compared to Wynn's resort which is a whole two hours away and is likely to outclass Springfield's casino in every way? Money? Maybe... but you're already going to go gambling which is in itself a waste of money.

 

[tangent]

I always assumed the MGM hotel component was going to be dropped once the plan was voter approved. Like seriously, why would you stay there compared to Wynn's resort which is a whole two hours away and is likely to outclass Springfield's casino in every way? Money? Maybe... but you're already going to go gambling which is in itself a waste of money.

If a basketball fan/player wanted to visit the basketball hall of fame and then saw that MGM had a hotel tower a couple blocks away with a casino, then that becomes a nice weekend trip. A squat dowtown hotel isn't an attraction

 

[DBM]

If a basketball fan/player wanted to visit the basketball hall of fame and then saw that MGM had a hotel tower a couple blocks away with a casino, then that becomes a nice weekend trip. A squat dowtown hotel isn't an attraction

In a more "serious" (read: snobbier) world, the Springfield Armory would well outdraw the NBA Hall of Fame, as awesome and fun as it is to gaze at Bob Lanier's size 22 shoes.

After all the Armory was quite literally consecrated by George Washington. The industrial supremacy that it created from 1790-1860 exemplified the superiority of the North's socioeconomic lifestyle and cultural values to the South's slaveocracy. Later of course, it created the M1 Garand rifle--aka the "Saving Private Ryan" rifle.

So you could say that the Springfield Armory, in a sense, "saved civilization" twice, from 1860-65 and again from 1940-45.

At a more prosaic level, Springfield's ongoing woes have never been a mystery: at the macrolevel, it remains tethered to the stagnant Connecticut River valley economy that extends south to Hartford.

At the micro level, the construction of the I-91 through downtown--the way it amputated the waterfront from the rest of downtown--remains of course an unmitigated debacle, the wiki entry for which is worth quoting in full (apologies for copping whighlander's act; I promise not to do it for a long while hence):

"hasty, poor urban planning decisions during 1958 created the now elevated I-91 viaduct along the Connecticut River, which essentially cut off Springfield from the Connecticut, the parks surrounding it, and the Basketball Hall of Fame complex, preventing foot traffic and resulting in untold losses of tourist dollars among other losses....

.... Recent academic papers have documented negative economic and sociological effects of I-91's placement in Springfield – it has fragmented three neighborhoods, inhibited the economic growth of Springfield's most valuable land – on the Riverfront and around the Basketball Hall of Fame – and essentially made the river inaccessible to people as a place for recreation and tourism. Recent city planning polls rate Springfield's I-91 among the worst urban planning decisions made by an American city. The highway's inhibiting effects on riverfront development were exacerbated during the 1980s and 1990s, when giant, above-grade highway parking lots were built underneath I-91, and later when earthen, grassy mounds and 20-foot limestone walls were constructed around large sections of it, blocking all but the tallest Metro Center buildings' views of the Connecticut River, and discouraging economic and social interaction between Metro Center and the Basketball Hall of Fame."



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro...e_91.27s_placement_inhibiting_economic_growth

 

[tangent]

If Massachusetts had more liberal gun laws (as in less draconian) there would be quite a bit more tourism associated with Springfield's gun manufacturing. If people could tour the Smith and Wesson plant and walk away with a pistol after an instant background check, then Springfield would see many thousands more tourists.

 

[citylover94]

I'm sorry but that is a ridiculous assertion to make without providing any evidence that would actually be the case. If you have seen any studies on this or have some way of knowing this that I don't have please share but otherwise this is a totally random claim.

 

[tangent]

I'm sorry but that is a ridiculous assertion to make without providing any evidence that would actually be the case. If you have seen any studies on this or have some way of knowing this that I don't have please share but otherwise this is a totally random claim.

DBM is the one to bring up visits to the Springfield Armory. I've seen many many people comment that they won't buy Smith and Wesson because they are in the People's Republic of Massachusetts. When Springfield should be a gun buyers mecca.

As for gun tourism, you can google it yourself, but here is for starters:
Gun tourism

 

[tangent]

So they go from this:

To this??????

At this point they should just legalize gambling and forget this casino license business altogether if the license holders are coming up with this shit. I'd rather a few table games on the weekend at the local tavern than drive an hour to some mediocre hole in the wall.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Springfield still has a non-comatose gun manufacturing industry? I thought they were kindred spirits with Hartford for their historical shooty-ambassadors' own comical mismanagement running themselves into the ground and clean out of business totally of their own doing without a single provocation from any state legislator. Because boy oh boy was Colt a high achiever at putting locally manufactured bullets in its own shoes.


EDIT: Well I'll be damned...Smith & Wesson still manufactures in Springfield. Police firearms only, but they still employ 800 out there. I thought they were reduced to just corporate offices and desk jockeys with all mfg. outsourced to cheaper-labor states.

 

[davem]

So they go from this:

To this??????

I think it's an improvement. The huge tower feels way too much like Atlantic City, while this scaled down version fits in contextually with the rest of the area. It makes the casino just another business, not the end all of the downtown. And that's a good thing.

 

[datadyne007]

I think it's an improvement. The huge tower feels way too much like Atlantic City, while this scaled down version fits in contextually with the rest of the area. It makes the casino just another business, not the end all of the downtown. And that's a good thing.

Absolutely agreed. Massive glass towers don't make a city. This looks to be very well integrated into the urban fabric of Springfield.

 

[Brad Plaid]

Not that familiar with Springfield's issues but it seems to really need a lifeline thrown to it. Go Big or Go Home, whether it's a casino or something else, might be the only solution here. The dinkiness of the hotel redo seriously neuters the "glam factor" of the original design and whether that ultimately matters or not the "wow" is gone. A critical mass is needed to catalyze the changes Springfield needs, architectural contextualism is the least of their worries.

 

[tangent]

Absolutely agreed. Massive glass towers don't make a city. This looks to be very well integrated into the urban fabric of Springfield.

Glass towers don't make a city, but they do make for a nice view from an attractive hotel. Which is the point of a hotel/casino. It is supposed to be attractive as in attracting of people to come stay there. And many people will want a room with a view and not this. A major regional attraction is not supposed to disappear into the urban fabric.

 

[Ruairi]

Glass towers don't make a city, but they do make for a nice view from an attractive hotel. Which is the point of a hotel/casino. It is supposed to be attractive as in attracting of people to come stay there. And many people will want a room with a view and not this. A major regional attraction is not supposed to disappear into the urban fabric.

I think the new plan looks far better, I'd say that a lot of people would prefer if casinos disappeared into the urban fabric rather than sticking out like a sore thumb, particularly in smaller cities.

 

[George_Apley]

My question is how they're saying it will cost the same as the original plan... unless the original plan was never actually scored and they were always planning on building this...

 

[tangent]

I think the new plan looks far better, I'd say that a lot of people would prefer if casinos disappeared into the urban fabric rather than sticking out like a sore thumb, particularly in smaller cities.

Sure, but the casino law artificially constrains the market in order to concentrate demand in order to create destination resort casinos. The idea is to attract capital investment from outside the state and to attract visitors from outside the state to offset the capital loss by Massachusetts residents going to outside casino investors. A gambling den with a mediocre hotel isn't going to attract visitors from outside Massachusetts.

That is a fundamental failure of the stated intent of the casino law and you would truly be better off with completely legalized gambling where small local businesses could participate in the market and keep the gambling dollars of Massachusetts residents circulating in the local economy.