MA Casino Developments

You people are dreaming. Revere and E.Boston are connected so there will be a lawsuit from the residents of E.Boston.

The investors involved with the Suffolk and Wonderland are probably the most powerful people in the state. They own the land and they are pushing to find any loop hole possible to put the casino in this area.

The Infrastructure is completely outdated in this area. Actually the infrastructure in the state is becoming very outdated in general.

This is a slap in the face for the residents of E.Boston as the politicans are saying we get our way anyways so kiss our ass.

The problem Revere and Everett face is the Casino effects all the surrounding towns and will cause major traffic issues along with small restaurants and businesses will struggle to compete with the inside of the casino's retail businesses especially with their comp points.

The gambling bill needs to go back on the ballot so everybody can voice their opinion because it effects everybody not just REVERE AND EVERETT. The taxpayers will be stuck with the massive infrastructure upgrades along with dealing with the everyday issues.

Riff -- Drop the piece its double loaded and the barrel is fouled -- I'm beginning to wonder if you've ever been inside or outside of a Major League Casino

Traffic generators they are not

Just for reference -- Both the Wynn and Suffolk Casino proposals are for relatively small facilities on the scale of Big Casinos such as MGM Grand or Wynn in Las Vegas

At the intersection of Tropicana and Las Vegas Blvd., there are 4 Mega Casinos {NYNY, Excalibur, MGM Grand, Tropicana] with well over 15,000 hotel rooms and more than 1,000,000 sq. ft. of gambling and entertainment space --Yet even during the CES [180,000 attendees recently] and even in the old 1990's when it was bigger -- I've never seen a traffic jam on Las Vegas Blvd [aka the Strip and Tropica Ave.] of the magnitude you prophesy for Suffolk or Wynn
 
Isn't the casino (whether in Everett or Revere) also going to be a major new venue for live entertainment, competing with Harborlights, House of Blues, all the local theatres and concert halls, maybe even the TD Garden? That type of use generates a lot of traffic all at once, rather than a steady stream throughout the day. And you need good transit connections to mitigate that.
 
What are the benefits for Somerville for allowing such access?

The benefit to Somerville would be increased utilization of the new Assembly Square T station, and an additional market for all of the retail and restaurant uses now being built next to it.

Also, pedestrian and bike connectivity from Somerville to its northern neighbors (just as Somerville now benefits from such connectivity to Arlington, Lexington etc. via the Minuteman bikeway). Somerville is very interested in bicycle-related improvements.
 
Casino's also usually have a couple clubs/bars in them. I think the crowd interested in going to the casino's for the clubs would definitely be interested in taking the T to get there, more so to get back.

Bob -- and the rest -- all of you n eed to do some homework

The kind of Casino Wynn and Suffolk are proposing is not a major traffic generator


Of course there will be some arriving by chartered bus from the little old ladies home in Watertown to play the nickel slots -- However, A large percentage if not the majority of the people gambling are staying in the hotel and playing the table games

The people in the clubs similarly are not arriving at the Casino to drink -- they are there to use the gaming facilities

All of you are vastly overplaying the impact of these proposed facilities -- the hotels will be of the scale of lots of similar hotels in Greater Boston and the gaming facilities will attract much smaller crowds even than does the Boston Symphony or the Nutcracker
 
At the intersection of Tropicana and Las Vegas Blvd., there are 4 Mega Casinos {NYNY, Excalibur, MGM Grand, Tropicana] with well over 15,000 hotel rooms and more than 1,000,000 sq. ft. of gambling and entertainment space --Yet even during the CES [180,000 attendees recently] and even in the old 1990's when it was bigger -- I've never seen a traffic jam on Las Vegas Blvd [aka the Strip and Tropica Ave.] of the magnitude you prophesy for Suffolk or Wynn
Have you forgotten that the monorail moved a lot of those convention gowers and tourists? i never rent a car when in Vegas. Hotel limo/bus from the airport, walk the strip or taking the monorail to the convention center. How about a monorail between the Wynn casino and Sullivan station or better yet to North Station (via Rutherford/Causeway Streets).

Las Vegas Monorail 3.9 miles
 
I already brought up a Monorail from Aquarium to the Seaport over the ocean. Forget building one over street access that will defeat the purpose of taking down the Green Monster in the first place.

Walking access below the monorail will become dismal.
 
Arlington, you've made your point and the rhetoric is getting ridiculous. Instead of putting words into Steve Wynn's mouth constantly, why don't you cite some sources where he actually says that he's not focused on being transit accessible instead of spewing out rhetoric and speaking on behalf of Steve Wynn?

No, its the T-fans here who've whipped themselves into a frenzy of either believing that Wynn needs the T, or that he'll be impelled to shower transit infrastructure over a 1 mile radius of his site. It is they who need some facts.

My facts are simple: Wynn picked a close-in-but-no-transit site and has never shown transit to be a factor.

Proving the negative is impossible. You're not going to catch Steve Wynn saying "I reject transit riders" or "I don't integrate into the urban fabric--although (see next post) you will see him build six casinos worth $6 Billion in LV that perfectly avoided being connected to the monorail.

You have to read his positive statements in which you are going to hear him wax about his "resorts" as "destinations"

This is not "T Stop" talk.
 
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Have you forgotten that the monorail moved a lot of those convention gowers and tourists?

Ok, now note how many Wynn Resorts are on the Monorail: ZERO

Some LV casino operators built a private monorail to ferry folks to the LV convention center. It went bankrupt. They're not doing that again. Not even to get it to the Airport. And Sullivan Square is in no way analogous to the LV Convention Center.

Meanwhile, Wynn built (by my count) 5 Resorts with no monorail access:
Wynn
Encore
Mirage
Treasure Island
Bellagio

His actions speak loud enough, but you guys have stopped your ears, unable to believe that a guy could amass a $3billion dollar fortune in casinos without knowing that he needs T access or must pay for yours.
 
Did NYC just get a casino licence too? What's going on there with regards to transit?
Has Wynn (or other similar operators) built a casino in a city with a LARGE transit riding population? What's happened there?

It seems like he would be stupid to not cater to the 1.3 million daily users of the service. "Resort" casino or not, that's 28% of the Metro Boston population - a very large audience accustomed to riding the T around town to give the finger to. I'm sure his market research people are also not oblivious to the fact that Boston is demolishing overpasses, removing travel lanes, and encouraging alternative forms of transit. As this appears to be an increasing trend, by not providing SOME sort of RT connection he is limiting himself to potential revenue. I'm not talking anything crazy here, but a pedestrian bridge across the Mystic to Assembly, or a shuttle running from Sullivan to the front gate (or both) is not outside the realm of possibility.

As for shows and such, I don't think it much matters whether its at the HoB, Garden, or a casino. If there is a headliner people want to see they will buy tickets. If they live in town, they are going to want to take the T, just like they do to every other venue.

I just think saying "NO. He won't." is pretty odd considering the demographics of the area. This is Boston, not Vegas, Atlantic City, or an Indian reservation in the woods.


Steve Wynn doesn't want you in his Casino when you are in a "people in general take the T" workaday-commute mood, he wants you in a money-sexy-happiness mood.

Some have already said it, but there are plenty of people on the T in money-sexy-happiness mood on a Friday and Saturday night. People ride the train and then dump $20 cover to get into the Roxy downstairs. People take the T to the Symphony, to the MFA. My aunts who live up in Hamilton, some of the most auto-centric people I know, take the T when they come into town to go out. Tourists, another large potential audience, take the T.
 
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This transit talk is getting a little over the top. Wynn doesn't care. The most he will do will run a shuttle the circulates between his site and Wellington/Assembly/Sullivan (whichever is easiest). Just like how the Cambridgeside mall has one that runs to kendall. It won't bring in significant amount of the casinos overall but does make it accessible to people that want it. Anything above and beyond is fantasy.
 
Sooner or later we'll likely have a Green Line branch to Chelsea/Airport via the Eastern Route ROW. When that time comes an Everett casino would probably warrant a stop. Don't expect Wynn to help kickstart any studies or funding for it though.
 
users of the service. "Resort" casino or not, that's 28% of the Metro Boston population - a very large audience accustomed to riding the T around town to give the finger to.

And yet, basically 100% of his target also own a car or can also afford a cab. You're looking at commute-modal-share, he's looking at patron modal share. (Upthread) He's got a mockup that shows structured parking tucked in back, and as for non-auto, he's got, at best, little river taxis shown. And I'm sure there will be a sleek black shuttle available to many points (likely including Sullivan, but I'm sure he'd rather South Station and Prudential)

This transit talk is getting a little over the top. Wynn doesn't care. The most he will do will run a shuttle the circulates between his site and Wellington/Assembly/Sullivan (whichever is easiest). Just like how the Cambridgeside mall has one that runs to kendall. It won't bring in significant amount of the casinos overall but does make it accessible to people that want it. Anything above and beyond is fantasy.

Nicely put. If people don't like my over-the-top rhetoric (really?!), but are persuadable, I hope they will listen to you and direct their worthy efforts in transit-accessibility to other threads (where I will agree with them).
 
And yet, basically 100% of his target also own a car or can also afford a cab. You're looking at commute-modal-share, he's looking at patron modal share.

It's not about affordability or car ownership. Its about driving in Boston sucking in general, really sucking in the vicinity of both casino sites, and people from the area knowing that. I still haven't heard an answer as to why people/tourists who take the T to do other things in town (symphony, concerts, museums, clubs, fancy dinners, sports, whatever) are going to not want to do that to go to a casino.

I also haven't seen an example of a casino in an urban area with a large transit riding population for comparison. Vegas, Atlantic City and Foxwoods are terrible examples. People drive there because they have no choice, and even then there are casino buses. I don't gamble (because I'm really good at wasting my money all on my own), but my friends do. Every single person I know who drives to Foxwoods complains about having to drive there, and says that if they didn't have to they would go more often. My girlfriend and I both own cars, but I take the T to the Cambridgeside galleria, and when the casino opens I will be taking it to get there to check it out too.


And I'm sure there will be a sleek black shuttle available to many points (likely including Sullivan, but I'm sure he'd rather South Station and Prudential)
This is really all I expect (I would add the airport in as well). A limoliner type of bus running frequently from the casino door to Sullivan and other close/popular destinations. To expect him to build a dedicated RT shuttle or something is nuts.

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Edit for a further thought:
The people who will be going to the Boston casino will be largely the same who currently go to Foxwoods, yes? So you've got rural MA (who are going to go to Springfield for their fix), CT and NY (who are going to keep going to Foxwoods, Atlantic City, or the new NY casinos), Metro Boston (who will go to ours), Rhode Island, who has the choice between Foxwoods and Boston, and NH/VT, who will probably come here.

With an increase in casinos across the board, the Boston casino is going to be pulling from a much smaller pool of potential gamblers to meet its bottom line. With the exception of those driving down from the north, most will be from the immediate area. So to make more money, Wynn is going to have to do one of two things. Cater to the local transit riding population, or heavily market vacation packages to pull people in from other areas of the country.

The vacation package will likely be marketed as being right within Boston. That's bad for Wynn, because it means that people are going to want to leave his casino and go into town and explore, loosing him money. It also means that people are going to want RT service from the casino to downtown. Being surrounded by ye olde Boston instead of desert, trees, or ghetto is bad for keeping people inside your walls.

Marketing to the local populous, however, allows him to tap into the existing pool of college kids, conventioneers, tourists, and residents. It doesn't fill hotel rooms or leave people sitting at a table or slot machine for days at a time, but it does guarantee a steady stream of money coming in from people looking for something to do on a saturday. It also requires a very small investment to tap into: some sort of connection to the existing transit system. These are people who are already here and are looking for something new to do. He just has to get them through the door.
 
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Bob -- and the rest -- all of you n eed to do some homework

The kind of Casino Wynn and Suffolk are proposing is not a major traffic generator


Of course there will be some arriving by chartered bus from the little old ladies home in Watertown to play the nickel slots -- However, A large percentage if not the majority of the people gambling are staying in the hotel and playing the table games

The people in the clubs similarly are not arriving at the Casino to drink -- they are there to use the gaming facilities

All of you are vastly overplaying the impact of these proposed facilities -- the hotels will be of the scale of lots of similar hotels in Greater Boston and the gaming facilities will attract much smaller crowds even than does the Boston Symphony or the Nutcracker

Ease up a minute.

I was not at all trying to "overplay" the impact of the casino, nor was I suggesting that there is a massive traffic impact. My only point was that there is a significant population that could benefit from having direct transit access. Of course, the overwhelming majority of casino goers are going to go to casinos in order to gamble, I don't think anyone is arguing against that. However, there is what I would call a sizable group that would be more interested in going to the clubs/bars, and would likely be interested in taking public transit. Might they drop a couple quarters or 20's in the slots? Probably, but I would hardly say they go there to gamble. I think that with the amount of students in the area, it could wind up being a popular weekend spot, and not all are interested in sitting at a table all night.
 
That is insanely untrue. Just because it's "high stakes" you think only rich people are going to show up, coming in their black chauffeured towncars?

High stakes or not, this will be a magnet for students, people living in T-accessible neighborhoods who (gasp) may not have cars or (gasp) may prefer not to drive, event crowds, and employees. The bridge to Assembly would be a very worthwhile investment.


LOL at "students" hitting the casino more than once as a novelty. Most students I have ever known are not playing $20 hands of blackjack and spending $75 a person on dinner. I may be underestimating the number of T users but you are vastly overestimating. I could definitely be persuaded otherwise if the T were to somehow come right to the door of a casino but I don't see a significant number of patrons taking the T and then walking a quarter mile to the casino. It's just not all that realistic save for some employees who don't have cars and a few folks attending events depending on the event.
 
I find it amazing how much money is coming out of Boston and the MBTA transit grid is completely outdated and BROKE with no significant upgrades since the 70's.

We are the education HUB of the world.
 
LOL at "students" hitting the casino more than once as a novelty.

Poker. Everyone can afford to play at a $1-2 table (sit down with $50) and if you are good can make money consistently.

I had a roommate in college who significantly supplemented his income by playing online poker. If he had a poker room to go to and have someone bring him free drinks all night, he would have been there a couple nights a week.

That's a working student. Frat boys with daddy's AMEX? Yeah, there will be a TON of college kids at the Boston casino no matter where it is located.
 
Poker. Everyone can afford to play at a $1-2 table (sit down with $50) and if you are good can make money consistently.

I had a roommate in college who significantly supplemented his income by playing online poker. If he had a poker room to go to and have someone bring him free drinks all night, he would have been there a couple nights a week.

That's a working student. Frat boys with daddy's AMEX? Yeah, there will be a TON of college kids at the Boston casino no matter where it is located.

the Frat boys with Daddy's Amex all have cars or access to cars. You really think those kind of kids will take the B line 30 minutes down Comm Ave from BU and switch trains for another 15 min ride out to Assembly and then walk 10 minutes? Perhaps when pigs fly. Hell, I see a ton of those kids drive to the bars downtown each weekend.
 

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