MassDOT Rail: Springfield Hub (East-West, NNERI, Berkshires, CT-Valley-VT-Quebec)

[The EGE]

What a con job. No stop in the second-most-populous city on the line outside current CR territory. Claiming less than one daily rider over 5 daily trains from 20k residents in Adams + North Adams. The lowest-cost option being over a billion dollars for a service that should require 2 small platforms, less than $25M of rolling stock, a few passing sidings, and targeted work on a few slow zones.

I don't think this is a high-priority rail investment - in agreement with everyone else, intercity bus with timed transfers at Greenfield and Wachusett would be a more effective service in the short turn. But this was clearly designed to kill any useful discussion.

 

[lainpimicaja]

What a con job. No stop in the second-most-populous city on the line outside current CR territory. Claiming less than one daily rider over 5 daily trains from 20k residents in Adams + North Adams. The lowest-cost option being over a billion dollars for a service that should require 2 small platforms, less than $25M of rolling stock, a few passing sidings, and targeted work on a few slow zones.

I don't think this is a high-priority rail investment - in agreement with everyone else, intercity bus with timed transfers at Greenfield and Wachusett would be a more effective service in the short turn. But this was clearly designed to kill any useful discussion.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of those studies where the funding math changes a few more months into the Healey administration . . . similar to how Baker came around to East-West Rail after Neal dug his hooks in.

 

[Arlington]

The $1B proposed for northern tier would be better spent on:
1) raising speeds on SPG-BOS and running a L-shaped route up the Valley
2) bus-train hub at SPG or Palmer
3) upgrades to Fitchburg Line
4) Bus service

 

[BosMaineiac]

Thereâs momentum at last for East-West Rail, but Postal Service still stands in the way - The Boston Globe

A key lawmaker is renewing pressure on the Postal Service to move its huge sorting facility alongside South Station, to enable the expansion of rail service.

www.bostonglobe.com

I didn’t realize that one of the major hurdles for E/W Rail is in fact SSX. I may have missed that in the documents… Either way, I think this should put to bed the whole SSX vs. NSRL debate. If the need is now for more track capacity for Amtrak and CR to expand modestly, we can’t put it off in favor of building the tunnels. We’re going to need both pieces of infrastructure eventually, but SSX should be priority given all the constraints and up front cost.

 

[jklo]

I didn’t realize that one of the major hurdles for E/W Rail is in fact SSX. I may have missed that in the documents…

Didn't read the article... but at 2019 service levels SS was close to full once you include SCR in the mix. But unless they go back to those levels, there should be room. You would also have to consider the Worcester Line itself as shown by the terrible H2H time slots in 2019.

 

[BosMaineiac]

Didn't read the article... but at 2019 service levels SS was close to full once you include SCR in the mix. But unless they go back to those levels, there should be room. You would also have to consider the Worcester Line itself as shown by the terrible H2H time slots in 2019.

Wouldn’t full regional rail warrant at least 2019 service levels? Even if it’s all day service as opposed to peak hour, I would think it wouldn’t take long to reach that level of demand

 

[Tallguy]

Organization before electronics before concrete.

 

[HenryAlan]

Organization before electronics before concrete.

This! Part of the issue with South Station capacity is that they do not turn trains as quickly as best practices can make possible. At the moment, they don't have to do so, and arguably they shouldn't, since the turned train has nowhere it needs to be. But under regional rail, the turned train is back in service. That means less time parked by the platform, which is to say more capacity for the next train.

 

[Arlington]

Organization before electronics before concrete.

I think the other change to regional rail would allow some de-peaking -- Can't clockface schedules reduce platform conflicts?

 

[JeffDowntown]

I think the other change to regional rail would allow some de-peaking -- Can't clockface schedules reduce platform conflicts?

Clockface schedules can reduce platform conflicts, so long as you don't put every line on the same clockface schedule! Why is it I don't trust the T to understand this.

 

[Teban54]

Clockface schedules can reduce platform conflicts, so long as you don't put every line on the same clockface schedule! Why is it I don't trust the T to understand this.

This got me imagining, in a post-NSRL world, the T trying to squeeze every train on every mainline into the tunnel at :00, :15, :30 and :45

 

[Tallguy]

This! Part of the issue with South Station capacity is that they do not turn trains as quickly as best practices can make possible. At the moment, they don't have to do so, and arguably they shouldn't, since the turned train has nowhere it needs to be. But under regional rail, the turned train is back in service. That means less time parked by the platform, which is to say more capacity for the next train.

Or we can spend $3.5B instead, between SSX, Readville diesel maintenance facility, and Widett. Nearly enough for Regional Rail

 

[jbray]

Or we can spend $3.5B instead, between SSX, Readville diesel maintenance facility, and Widett. Nearly enough for Regional Rail

It has been my understanding that Readville is necessary for the Grand Junction to move off of the CR network. More than that, it's not like a full-fledged push for Regional rail is going to diminish the need to use diesels in the interim while catenary goes up from end to end. This is especially true given that the political football seems to require us electifying Newburyport/Rockport at the same time as the south side which really strains our ability to NOT choose short term changes that are unintuitive for the long term goal.

 

[Stlin]

It has been my understanding that Readville is necessary for the Grand Junction to move off of the CR network. More than that, it's not like a full-fledged push for Regional rail is going to diminish the need to use diesels in the interim while catenary goes up from end to end. This is especially true given that the political football seems to require us electifying Newburyport/Rockport at the same time as the south side which really strains our ability to NOT choose short term changes that are unintuitive for the long term goal.

Plus, my understanding of readville is that it's intended to be "Electric Ready." Even in an electric world, having a place to maintain and fix those electric trains just off the NEC would be required, plus the diesels on the South Side with the growth of SCR, - Rochester isn't going to cut it.

Also, since I don't think it's been posted here: a render of the proposed South Side Maintenance facility.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Plus, my understanding of readville is that it's intended to be "Electric Ready." Even in an electric world, having a place to maintain and fix those electric trains just off the NEC would be required, plus the diesels on the South Side with the growth of SCR, - Rochester isn't going to cut it.

Also, since I don't think it's been posted here: a render of the proposed South Side Maintenance facility.View attachment 35961

If you're going to run EMU's, every single powered unit is considered a "locomotive" in FRA-speak and becomes subject to automatic 92-day inspections. Whereas with push-pull only the locos and cab cars need that level of scrutiny; the trailers have much longer cycles. If you're going to have Regional Rail-sized fleet numbers and thrash them through those kinds of inspection cycles, you better damn well have a big honking maintenance facility to do it. The whole world can't run out of Boston Engine Terminal and southside nooks-and-crannies in a Regional Rail universe...no way, no how.

 

[Tallguy]

Plus, my understanding of readville is that it's intended to be "Electric Ready." Even in an electric world, having a place to maintain and fix those electric trains just off the NEC would be required, plus the diesels on the South Side with the growth of SCR, - Rochester isn't going to cut it.

Also, since I don't think it's been posted here: a render of the proposed South Side Maintenance facility.View attachment 35961

It is by no means EMU ready.

This is a conventional, diesel push-pull repair facility that will be obsolete within 10-12 years of being built.
The T wants to spend $4B on status quo projects to continue diesel ops and nothing on EMUs. If they had started planning when the FMCB told them to, Providence could have been electrified by next year.

 

[jklo]

This is a conventional, diesel push-pull repair facility that will be obsolete within 10-12 years of being built.

T definitely gives the impression that they expect diesel to be around for way longer than that.

 

[393b40]

T definitely gives the impression that they expect diesel to be around for way longer than that.

I don't think the T will ditch diesel voluntarily, it's going to require the legislature forcing the matter to happen.

 

[Blackbird]

Is there a reason the T is so married to the idea of diesel?

 

[king_vibe]

Is there a reason the T is so married to the idea of diesel?

BEMUs aren’t real and electrification will never happen.