Millennium (Hayward) Place | 580 Washington Street | Downtown

Re: Hayward Place

HenryAlan said:
Do you have a cut-off on scale? There are quite a few smaller projects going on in some outlying neighborhoods that will have a noticeable impact for their locations.
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Cutoff is a project large enough to be (in the mould of I'll know it when I see it):
a) visible from a distance -- i.e. tall cranes
b) big hole in the ground with lots of heavy equipment involved -- e.g. pile driving, shaft drilling
c) big-enough scale to last quite a while -- to keep a forum active for about a year
d) something unique about the location or the nature of the project -- e.g. the name or location is iconic -- Pru, Fan Pier, South Station
e) a combination of the above not necessarily enough in any one category
f) ultimately -- its worth visiting to see what's going on

Note single family homes, 3 deckers, mon&pop grocery/hardware, small restaurants, need not apply
 
Re: Hayward Place

statler said:
Ah...
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I was worried thought someone was auditioning for my list -- based on the iconic location -- i.e. you could sneek-inside the fence at the Hole and install a few vertical tomato stakes and since its the Filene's Hole it would fit category (c) -- something unique about the location or the nature of the project -- e.g. the name or location is iconic -- Pru, Fan Pier, South Station

Then I'd have to go by and note the angle of the tomato stakes and the rust on the steel, etc.
 
Re: Hayward Place

Walked by this site tonight. In the middle of the lot is a large white tent with a podium in front and flagpoles behind the podium.

Maybe for an official groundbreaking tomorrow?
 
Re: Hayward Place

Sicilian said:
Walked by this site tonight. In the middle of the lot is a large white tent with a podium in front and flagpoles behind the podium.

Maybe for an official groundbreaking tomorrow?
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OCCUPY HAYWARD PLACE!
 
Re: Hayward Place

whighlander said:
Note single family homes, 3 deckers, mon&pop grocery/hardware, small restaurants, need not apply
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Not really what I was talking about. I was thinking about commercial buildings and large apartment buildings, but your points a through f are a useful evaluative framework.
 
Re: Hayward Place

ground breaking is today according to the Herald!
 
Re: Hayward Place

I'm glad an empty lot is being filled, but I'm sad it is being filled with this.
 
Re: Hayward Place

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Every new building does not need to be iconic or even stand out. This building is fine, and will significantly improve the area just by virtue of being there.
 
Re: Hayward Place

Ehh...It's more of a sliding scale than a dichotomy. I would have like to seen the design pushed a little further towards the "Perfect" side of that scale.
 
Re: Hayward Place

statler said:
Ehh...It's more of a sliding scale than a dichotomy. I would have like to seen the design pushed a little further towards the "Perfect" side of that scale.
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Stat -- its a change in the momentum -- the bat and the ball have just colided in our analogy of DTX

previously it was all ball -- everything headiing down the drain

Now we have two starts on new construction only a few weeks / months appart

If the ball leaves the bat heading within the foul lines and with the right spin and elevation angle -- this yet might turn into a nice hit -- setting up the potenial for others -- though it could still turn into a ground ball to a an infielder, a pop-up or a fly ball out

After Kennsington, Hayward and whatever

Come back to DTX in 10 years and we'll see how the whole inning has played-out
 
Re: Hayward Place

HenryAlan said:
The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Every new building does not need to be iconic or even stand out. This building is fine, and will significantly improve the area just by virtue of being there.
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A great city with low standards is a city in decline.

In this case, we're talking about a parcel in the heart of one of the most promising metropolitan cities in the world.
 
Re: Hayward Place

Sicilian said:
A great city with low standards is a city in decline.

In this case, we're talking about a parcel in the heart of one of the most promising metropolitan cities in the world.
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Sicil -- do you really believe that every brick building built at the time of Bulfinch and Benjamin was a masterpiece

or that the Grantite masterpieces by Bryant, Gilman, Parris, etc. were all surounded by other maserpieces

Well we don't know explicitly -- as mostly the others are not here any more -- However, the assumption is that while there were a few places such as near the Custom House and Copley Sq. where masterpieces butt up against and look across from others -- this was most certainly not the case everywhere in the city

A lot of the best areas just have a lot of OK buildings -- not super or even great -- that work together to produce an overall pleasant effect -- such as most of Beacon, Newburry, Charles in the Back Bay; parts of the North End; a lot of the front side of Beacon Hill; parts of DTX

Even some of the blocks of Commonwealth Ave are mostly anonomous works that by themselves would be good -- but are great because of how they relate to each other and the mall

I'd like to see a DTX -- replete with modern designs usig modern materals (not necessarily Moderne-style) -- but buildings that can be good neighbors to what is already there and also with their peers

That not just some super tower -- would be a successful DTX for Boston

There are a lot of places where a signature tower would be great -- not clear that from the aesthic perspective (not counting transit access, etc) that DTX should be anything but a collection of pleasant structures -- no darth Vaders, no Paul Rudolphs neeed apply
 
Re: Hayward Place

^whighlander

Maybe you can provide the construction dates of the masterpieces you cited.

I think you'll make my case.

We don't need to get deeper into this -- it's an old discussion. The folks that defend mediocrity don't have a track record of calling for world-class standards at any site.
 
Re: Hayward Place

Everyone loves the Fort Point buildings along Summer.... they could easily be considered masterpieces by todays standards. They were not then. They were utilitarian with a nod towards aesthetics as they were on a main thoroughfare.
Back then people took pride in what they did..... and pride was also more affordable in construction.
The picture of the lot on the previous page shows some pretty atractive buildings surrounding this. The new building will "tower" over those, should it not also exceed them in quality of design and construction as much as it does in height? It is what will draw your attention away from the other, nicer, low rises.
 
Re: Hayward Place

SeamusMcFly said:
Everyone loves the Fort Point buildings along Summer.... they could easily be considered masterpieces by todays standards. They were not then. They were utilitarian with a nod towards aesthetics as they were on a main thoroughfare.
Back then people took pride in what they did..... and pride was also more affordable in construction.
The picture of the lot on the previous page shows some pretty atractive buildings surrounding this. The new building will "tower" over those, should it not also exceed them in quality of design and construction as much as it does in height? It is what will draw your attention away from the other, nicer, low rises.
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Seamus -- well said -- they were all constructed for very down-to-earth use as warehouses, sometimes with some small office space, and some had unrealted shops at ground level

But they fit together quite cohesively -- and make a pleasant pedestrian environment

Ultimately, if you are walking on a street that is not Wilshire Blvd in LA -- you are mostly aware of stuff at most a couple of stories above you while off in the background you might be dimly cognizant of tallness

The narrower the street the less of the building on the other side of the street in your field of awareness (not quite your optical field of view as we tend to suppress peripheral stuff)

Thus to build a sucessful neighborhood by building a street full of buildings with pleasant lower 2 stories (ideally with shops and restaurants) -- and who cares for the next 10 or so stories -- and if you want a nice top-- by all means go for it (e.g. the Lanmark, USM, 185 Franklin on the Franklin side, or my favorite the Chadwick Lead Works)
 
Re: Hayward Place

Back then people took pride in what they did..... and pride was also more affordable in construction.
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I really think this is 100% the reason most modern building kind of suck. It is just too damn expensive (read: not profitable enough) to build a true quality building.

I think today's architects and engineers are fully capable of designing high quality, timeless buildings (and I'm not even talking about showstoppers, just quality) but materials, labor costs, and profit margin concerns make them too expensive to execute.

And yes, we've had this discussion before (and probably will again).
 
Re: Hayward Place

^stat

I generally agree with you. Not on this.

I've said it over and over. Plenty of money is available. Plenty. It's private capital and land value that I'm talking about. Maybe the banks aren't lending, but the property owners have made a fortune and aren't investing it... they are carrying the cash away from the project site(s).

Bankruptcies and failures are predominately at sites where the original property owner flipped the project after approvals, before developing anything. Other failures are sites that are mothballed even though the property owner made a bundle because they'll make even more if they sit on it.

A property owner and/or developer hits the lottery at City Hall when he or she purchases a property (or rights to develop it) and has it rezoned for a multiple of the density that he or she paid for.

And every site we are talking about hit the lottery through rezoning. So if I tell you the site is upzoned to 3x or 10x the value by comparison with its purchase price, tell me where the value ends up. In the property owner and/or developer's pocket.
 
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