Portland - Civic Center

It would be great if they would add atleast another 1,000 seats to the arena so they can compete with Manchester for some of the major concerts. Seems very short sighted not to have a capacity expansion when renovating this outdated arena. I agree with Patrick, build the arena in the Bayside area and turn the arena into a full scale convention center.
 
It would be great if they would add atleast another 1,000 seats to the arena so they can compete with Manchester for some of the major concerts. Seems very short sighted not to have a capacity expansion when renovating this outdated arena. I agree with Patrick, build the arena in the Bayside area and turn the arena into a full scale convention center.
They should fill in the corners at one end with additional seating. Portland should have an arena that has at the very least 8,000 fixed seats. I believe it now seats in the 6,700 range.
 
Kudos to Seanflynn78 about expanding to capcity to compete with Manchester Verizon Arena( beautiful building by the way and Manchester should be proud.) It is an excellent point and I too would love to see additiona seating to further enhance competiveness of CCCC.

Matt
 
I could be wrong about this--it's entirely based on personal speculation--but I wonder if the capacity is more of a concern in Manchester, which has to compete in essentially the same market as arenas in Boston, Lowell and other nearby cities. Portland and Manchester are different cities, but Portland in general seems to be a bit more self-sufficient than Manchester, which is in sort of a grey area between an independent city and a satellite of Boston. My assumption would be that this goes for Portland, as well. It's a much longer drive or train ride from Portland to Boston than it is from Manchester to Boston, or even Lowell. While a bigger arena probably wouldn't hurt--and while I think it would do a ton of good in Bayside--I wonder if 8,000 seats in Portland is just as good as 10,000 or whatever it is in Manchester.

As for the architecture, the renovation looks like it will do a good job of adding some energy and interest along the street. That's something that is lacking at the current arena, as well as at the Verizon in Manchester, in my opinion. While I like the look of the Verizon from afar and the entrance plaza and glass wall are great during an event, it is far too blank along Lake Ave and the setbacks create a weird dead zone along the sides. Pushing it up to the street and adding retail or something along street level, as well as getting rid of that electronic sign at the intersection, would have made it much more urban I think. Especially after the renovations, CCCC should be much more urban-appropriate and interesting from the street than the Verizon, in my opinion.
 
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I could be wrong about this--it's entirely based on personal speculation--but I wonder if the capacity is more of a concern in Manchester, which has to compete in essentially the same market as arenas in Boston, Lowell and other nearby cities. Portland and Manchester are different cities, but Portland in general seems to be a bit more self-sufficient than Manchester, which is in sort of a grey area between an independent city and a satellite of Boston. My assumption would be that this goes for Portland, as well. It's a much longer drive or train ride from Portland to Boston than it is from Manchester to Boston, or even Lowell. While a bigger arena probably wouldn't hurt--and while I think it would do a ton of good in Bayside--I wonder if 8,000 seats in Portland is just as good as 10,000 or whatever it is in Manchester.

As for the architecture, the renovation looks like it will do a good job of adding some energy and interest along the street. That's something that is lacking at the current arena, as well as at the Verizon in Manchester, in my opinion. While I like the look of the Verizon from afar and the entrance plaza and glass wall are great during an event, it is far too blank along Lake Ave and the setbacks create a weird dead zone along the sides. Pushing it up to the street and adding retail or something along street level, as well as getting rid of that electronic sign at the intersection, would have made it much more urban I think. Especially after the renovations, CCCC should be much more urban-appropriate and interesting from the street than the Verizon, in my opinion.

You are right. But I don't think the phrase "competing with" is used in the sense that a show would choose Portland or Manchester, Lowell, Providence, etc., rather I think it is used in the sense that we want to appeal to the same caliber of shows that plays those markets. In Manchester, the word competing actually means a show could choose Lowell or Manchester, because they are so close. In Portland it means we want Rihanna (just happens to be on the radio), and other big ticket pop sell out names, not Disney on Ice and boat shows. Just like our cruise ship facility now attracts and can accommodate the largest ship in the world, whereas before we were limited to smaller ships, we want the big shows with big attendances and big pay offs for the surrounding businesses. It's essentially a way to capture more of the monthly leisure budget of the people in the suburbs who only come here for shows and otherwise shop in the burbs.

I think you are also right on the streetscape in improvements, the one really redeeming factor of this proposal. The building juts out as an upside down triangle now, with no windows. Filling that area with usable space will be a great albeit imperfect improvement.
 
You are right. But I don't think the phrase "competing with" is used in the sense that a show would choose Portland or Manchester, Lowell, Providence, etc., rather I think it is used in the sense that we want to appeal to the same caliber of shows that plays those markets. In Manchester, the word competing actually means a show could choose Lowell or Manchester, because they are so close. In Portland it means we want Rihanna (just happens to be on the radio), and other big ticket pop sell out names, not Disney on Ice and boat shows. Just like our cruise ship facility now attracts and can accommodate the largest ship in the world, whereas before we were limited to smaller ships, we want the big shows with big attendances and big pay offs for the surrounding businesses. It's essentially a way to capture more of the monthly leisure budget of the people in the suburbs who only come here for shows and otherwise shop in the burbs.

I think you are also right on the streetscape in improvements, the one really redeeming factor of this proposal. The building juts out as an upside down triangle now, with no windows. Filling that area with usable space will be a great albeit imperfect improvement.

With concert capacity topping out around 8,000.......I'm thinking that Bangor will also be in the mix for some of the same types of shows......especially considering that it will be a 100% new facility. I can see a Manchester show bypassing Portland for Bangor (especially country and classic rock).
 
Bangor's new arena will potentially attract a few shows that would have stopped in Portland when it opens and for a short period until the newness wears off. With around 1000 less seats than the Civic Center and an additional 130 miles further north, Bangor will be a tougher sell for promoters that can only bring one show to Maine. Once the CCCC's renovations are completed, Bangor's arena will have to work even harder to attract business.

That said, I am pleased that Bangor is getting an attractive new arena, it is well deserved and long overdue. Surprised that it will not be ice capable, probably due to the Alfond Arena being located a short distance away. And remember, Bangor will also have to compete with the Augusta Civic Center which will have a similar seating capacity, no ice and is only an hour north of Portland. If the voters did not approve the renovations/expansion of the Civic Center it would have been sad for southern Maine.
 
Bangor's new arena will potentially attract a few shows that would have stopped in Portland when it opens and for a short period until the newness wears off. With around 1000 less seats than the Civic Center and an additional 130 miles further north, Bangor will be a tougher sell for promoters that can only bring one show to Maine. Once the CCCC's renovations are completed, Bangor's arena will have to work even harder to attract business.

That said, I am pleased that Bangor is getting an attractive new arena, it is well deserved and long overdue. Surprised that it will not be ice capable, probably due to the Alfond Arena being located a short distance away. And remember, Bangor will also have to compete with the Augusta Civic Center which will have a similar seating capacity, no ice and is only an hour north of Portland. If the voters did not approve the renovations/expansion of the Civic Center it would have been sad for southern Maine.

One thing to remember regarding Bangor is that they have a HUGE advantage having an "in" with Live Nation due the city's relationship with promoter Alex Gray and his very successful Waterfront Concerts series.
 
On the Cianbro website www.cianbro.com is an architectural rendering of what the entrance of the Civic Center will look like from the Spring Street/Center Street area. First time I have seen this rendering and not sure if it the final design. Cianbro was selected as the construction manager for the project.
 
The Design on the website is actually not bad....I hope it turns out to look that, I expected far less to be honest
 
civiccenter.jpg


Wow, pretty interesting. I don't recall previously seeing any renderings of this corner of the Civic Center. It's quite an improvement over what is there now. I like how it comes right up to the street too, that is one of my expectations for urban buildings. The blatant Dunkin Donuts advertising is interesting too. Although Dunkin Donuts Center is already taken by Providence, I fully support the civic center selling it's naming rights in exchange for money and there are numerous local or regional companies that may be interested.
 
civiccenter.jpg


Wow, pretty interesting. I don't recall previously seeing any renderings of this corner of the Civic Center. It's quite an improvement over what is there now. I like how it comes right up to the street too, that is one of my expectations for urban buildings. The blatant Dunkin Donuts advertising is interesting too. Although Dunkin Donuts Center is already taken by Providence, I fully support the civic center selling it's naming rights in exchange for money and there are numerous local or regional companies that may be interested.

I like it. Could it be better? Sure, but I really like it. The glass facade lit up during shows will look phenomenal, especially from the harbor.
 
Was just there tonight for the black keys concert.

A guy from a competing company who lost the bid thought he heard Cianbro might bump out the four corners inside. That would open up a ton more space for seats but would it structurally be possible to move those giant supports?
 
After a discussion with the lead architect a few weeks ago, the possibility of knocking out the four corners is not a feasible option due to costs and sight lines. To remove the four supports would require a huge structural makeover which is not in the budget.

However, they are looking very hard at adding 1000-1400 seats based on a unique riser system that would require removal of a portion of the concrete base along the floor level and moving the concert stage further to the east. Increased seating capacity would be for concerts only and would have little or no gains on the Civic Center's permanent seating capacity of approximately 6800.

For this increase in seating to become a reality, Cianbro would need to squeeze a little more out of the 33M budget. Latest word is that they have found a way to add some additional seating for concerts which enabled them to win the construction contract. Stay tuned, this will help Portland compete more effectively for shows north of Boston. Even if there are no seating gains, we will still have a "respectable" newly renovated arena that will have around 1000 more seats than Bangor's new building along with the added bonus of ice.
 
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My feelings too Portlander. After going there last night and seeing how many people were in there and the Black Keys saying they'll be back and it was one of the best crowds they've played to in a long time, it's more about making the place look and feel better. You can still draw big time shows with a renovated arena, you just won't get the super huge shows. Still we might get back on the map for what it used to be which was the starting point for many big tours. The CCCC was always a get the kinks out before you really hit the road for bands. That's alright, that means you get them while they're fresh.

The guy I talk to who's company lost the bid for the CCCC said he's in a good position to get the Forefront Thompson's point project so hopefully I'll have a good connection from him.
 
grittys, not sure if this a good sign or not but on Cianbro's web page on CCCC improvements it does list additional seating separate from premium seating which is the first time I have seen this possibility in print.

The Civic Center could still be an excellent arena for touring acts to rehearse and commence their tours from. A refurbished building located on the coast of Maine can be a huge plus and prominent artists could still put on multiple shows on successive nights. I remember Garth Brooks bringing in 40,000 plus for five nights many years ago (I was not one of the 40,000).
 
civiccenter.jpg


Wow, pretty interesting. I don't recall previously seeing any renderings of this corner of the Civic Center. It's quite an improvement over what is there now. I like how it comes right up to the street too, that is one of my expectations for urban buildings. The blatant Dunkin Donuts advertising is interesting too. Although Dunkin Donuts Center is already taken by Providence, I fully support the civic center selling it's naming rights in exchange for money and there are numerous local or regional companies that may be interested.


I was always under the impression that the outside wall/roof area that angles down would be brought straight down almost in line with the inside edge of the sidewalk so that they could actually widen the Concourse area. Otherwise, I don't see how they increase the width of the Concourse which is supposed to be one of the major improvements.
 
Cumberland County Civic Center update:

If the recently submitted plans remain the same, the Civic Center will have a modest gain of 243 permanent seats. This number accounts for losses due to 2010 ADA requirements along with additions from the 10 proposed premium/club/luxury seating areas. This will bring the arena's capacity for hockey and ice shows to 7,000. The overall size of the expanded building will increase by 41,000 sf for a new grand total of 186,000 sf.

On a more positive side, the capacity for end stage concerts will increase by 500+ seats. This will be accomplished by moving the stage further to the east (Center Street) and removing a section of the present fixed seating area in order to create a new "cut out" for the new stage location. Permanent seats on the east end will be replaced with telescopic seating to help accomplish this goal. This should work well due to a majority of concerts utilize the end stage configuration and the seating area behind the stage is rarely used. This unique approach will allow for the placement of more floors seats and added usage of the fixed seating on the arena's sides. Total capacity for concerts will increase to 9,000.

This will maintain Portland's position of having Maine's largest arena by around 1200 seats over Bangor's new facility. Other advantages over Bangor includes the ability to make ice and being geographically located two hours closer to the rest of the country. Also in the current renovation plans are the addition of two more loading bays that will be angled at a more manageable position off Center Street to greatly improve loading and unloading capabilities. These are all important factors promoters must consider when it comes to bringing only one show north of Boston and or Manchester.

Though I personally would have preferred a new 10,000+ seat arena, I feel the architects squeezed as much out of the 35 year old building as possible considering the $33 million budget and it also remains downtown. One final note, the MassMutual Center in Springfield, MA was renovated several years ago at a cost of $71+ million and it's seating capacity will be actually a little less than the CCCC and it's building layout is almost identical. Springfield also got an attached convention center included in that 2005 price tag and it has to compete with Albany, Hartford and Worcester for shows. However, Springfield's population is around 155,000 compared to Portland at 66,000 which makes me feel that we are doing just fine for a city of our size!
 
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The renderings look pretty good......a big improvement
 

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