Seaport Square (Formerly McCourt Seaport Parcels)

This is all my fault. Honestly, I picked a random DC burb in my initial comparison only because in my opinion downtown DC's height-restricted stumps actually shine, whereas the Innovation District's stumps do not. Bethesda was it only because I like the giant blowup shark that Discovery's HQ puts up during Shark Week. No logical or rational reason behind my choice.

I have only seen pics of Bethesda, Pentagon City, Tyson's Corner, Chevy Chase, Baily's Crossroads, etc. Never actually explored any DC burbs on the ground other than Arlington and Alexandria, and those are different beasts entirely.

Really, I only wanted to defend downtown DC's building stock. Shouldn't have picked Bethesda.
 
shawn said:
This is all my fault. Honestly, I picked a random DC burb in my initial comparison only because in my opinion downtown DC's height-restricted stumps actually shine, whereas the Innovation District's stumps do not. Bethesda was it only because I like the giant blowup shark that Discovery's HQ puts up during Shark Week. No logical or rational reason behind my choice.

I have only seen pics of Bethesda, Pentagon City, Tyson's Corner, Chevy Chase, Baily's Crossroads, etc. Never actually explored any DC burbs on the ground other than Arlington and Alexandria, and those are different beasts entirely.

Really, I only wanted to defend downtown DC's building stock. Shouldn't have picked Bethesda.
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You're fine, Shawn. At least you have the self confidence to admit when there is an error.

The Loquacious Lexingtonian will probably just attempt a blizzard of unrelated factoids he pulled from the Encyclopedia Brittanica in an attempt to avoid saying the 3 words in life that scare him most: "I didn't know".

BTW, not to nitpick, but the Discovery HQ is in Silver Spring. ;)
 
WalkScore comparisons: (not perfect, but interesting none-the-less)

Bethesda MD: Bethesda is a Car-Dependent city
Most errands require a car.
Bethesda has an average Walk Score of 47 with 60,858 residents.
Bethesda has some public transportation.

Seaport, South Boston, MA: Very Walkable
Seaport has a Walk Score of 77 out of 100. This location is Very Walkable so most errands can be accomplished on foot.

Seaport is a 12 minute walk from the Red Line at the South Station - Inbound stop.
(No credit for the Silver line)
 
JeffDowntown said:
WalkScore comparisons: (not perfect, but interesting none-the-less)

Bethesda MD: Bethesda is a Car-Dependent city
Most errands require a car.
Bethesda has an average Walk Score of 47 with 60,858 residents.
Bethesda has some public transportation.

Seaport, South Boston, MA: Very Walkable
Seaport has a Walk Score of 77 out of 100. This location is Very Walkable so most errands can be accomplished on foot.

Seaport is a 12 minute walk from the Red Line at the South Station - Inbound stop.
(No credit for the Silver line)
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No doubt. What that report relies on is that the Innovation District is a 12 minute walk from South Station. That does not adddress the fortress like ground floors of the buildings IN that District.

Roxbury is really close to some of the best medical centers in the world also.

Further, I am willing to wager that the two Red Line metro stations WITHIN Bethesda handle more than more passengers per day than the entire Silver Line combined within the ID.
 
JeffDowntown said:
WalkScore comparisons: (not perfect, but interesting none-the-less)

Bethesda MD: Bethesda is a Car-Dependent city
Most errands require a car.
Bethesda has an average Walk Score of 47 with 60,858 residents.
Bethesda has some public transportation.

Seaport, South Boston, MA: Very Walkable
Seaport has a Walk Score of 77 out of 100. This location is Very Walkable so most errands can be accomplished on foot.

Seaport is a 12 minute walk from the Red Line at the South Station - Inbound stop.
(No credit for the Silver line)
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Type in an address close the metro stop in Bethesda, MD and your score comes up as 94. Similarly, Waltham has a walks core of 49...but if you type in an address near the train station on moody st you get 95.

Who cares about Waltham or Bethesda?

Back to the topic please...and thank you.
 
617 said:
Type in an address close the metro stop in Bethesda, MD and your score comes up as 94. Similarly, Waltham has a walks core of 49...but if you type in an address near the train station on moody st you get 95.

Who cares about Waltham or Bethesda?

Back to the topic please...and thank you.
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You bet, sorry for my part in that.

Focusing on the ID - - at this point in time, it certainly is pedestrian-unfriendly. The key is to develop ground floors that nurture urban life. Only that way will the area be vibrant a la Back Bay, Fenway, Central Square, North End, Coolidge Corner.
 
One doesn't need vibrancy everywhere. The vibrancy of the NIH campus (next to Bethesda) is non-existent, same for across the street at the Walter Reed hospital complex.

'Vibrant' Bethesda is a small village oasis that blossomed up in the middle of a big single-family residential 'burb of DC. Use street view in Bethesda of Elm and Woodmont, or 4800 block of Bethesda Ave, to take a walk around Bethesda, and that's illustrative of the vibrancy of the 'hood, --in essence, conversions of a single story, commercial / service-oriented establishment district into retail and restaurants. And nobody walks between Bethesda and Chevy Chase (Friendship Heights), and nobody walks to Saks or, for that matter, to Louis Vuitton. Cartier, Tiffany, etc. (street view 5454 Wisconsin Ave Chevy Chase MD)
 
shmessy said:
BTW, not to nitpick, but the Discovery HQ is in Silver Spring. ;)
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I just keep digging that hole deeper eh.

One of the places outside DC that I have explored in person, albeit barely outside, is Rosslyn in Arlington. Lots of high-quality stumps that manage to look less stumpish than most others. Maybe Rosslyn would be a good measuring stick for the Innovation District? Obviously a few decades removed in terms of maturity.
 
shawn said:
I just keep digging that hole deeper eh.

One of the places outside DC that I have explored in person, albeit barely outside, is Rosslyn in Arlington. Lots of high-quality stumps that manage to look less stumpish than most others. Maybe Rosslyn would be a good measuring stick for the Innovation District? Obviously a few decades removed in terms of maturity.
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The only thing Rosslyn and the Innovation District have in common are their building heights being constrained by the FAA.

Only in a thick fog would buildings in Rosslyn be characterized as high quality stumps.

As for street level, use Streetview to take a tour of Rosslyn. You could start with these addresses.

1708 North Oak St. Arlington Virginia
1709 North Moore St. Arlington Virginia
North Lynn St and Wilson Boulevard, Arlington Virginia
1870 N. Fort Myer Drive, Arlington Virginia

Rosslyn is only several decades old; its growth spurred by a very busy and key Metro station (transfer point between lines). Prior to Metro, Rosslyn was auto-centric: car dealers, repair garages, and lots of pawnshops, bars, risque entertainment.

north-lynn-street.jpg


Image is of North Lynn St. looking north toward the District of Columbia, from about Wilson Boulevard, before Metro was built.
 
What's all this love for DC? If there's anything to learn from the area, it's that simply density does not a good neighborhood make.

Places like Silver Spring, Rosslyn, Crystal City, and Bethesda (yes, Bethesda, beyond the handful of blocks that are decent) are dense, have excellent Metro access and yet are still very unpleasant places to walk around. They're suburbs on steroids, urban-suburban bastard children that managed to inherit very few of the positive traits of either parent. If you don't believe me, take a street view stroll down Wilson Blvd. in Rosslyn, Wisconsin Ave. in Bethesda, or Georgia Ave. in Silver Spring.

The Innovation District won't turn out like these inner-ring DC suburbs, and I am very glad for it. Each of these stump towers will house retail along a bland but intact street wall, there will be a large residential component, there's the draw of a well-engaged waterfront (unlike, say, the Potomac River), and the classic urbanity of Fort Point to break the monotony.

Could the Innovation District be MUCH better? Absolutely. But Bethesda? Downtown DC? Come on guys, let's not insult ourselves.
 
shawn said:
I just keep digging that hole deeper eh.

One of the places outside DC that I have explored in person, albeit barely outside, is Rosslyn in Arlington. Lots of high-quality stumps that manage to look less stumpish than most others. Maybe Rosslyn would be a good measuring stick for the Innovation District? Obviously a few decades removed in terms of maturity.
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I agree. I find Rosslyn's skyline quite appealing, despite them being stumps. However, I think it would be better if the Seaport looks toward Vancouver if they want short appealing towers.
 
I stayed in Rosslyn for a few days last time around and found the streets to be fairly busy with pedestrians, despite the street-level of many buildings being crappy. Probably due to the Metro station.

I did see one new development going up that looked a lot more promising than the existing stuff.

There's government buildings in Rosslyn which probably helped contribute to the deadness. The Seaport should have done better.
 
shmessy said:
I live in Montgomery County....and I used to live in Newton, so I know a thing or two about Bethesda and Wellesley. You, sir, just typed a lulu. :D

Bethesda is to DC like Wellesley is to Boston? Yeah, sure , the nightlife scenes are completely similar! The pedestrian experiences around all those the Wellesley highrises and the centrally located Wellesley Metro station can't be beat! Yup, those urban aspects of Wellesley can't be beat!

Sorry, but your Cliff Clavin act cannot mask the ignorance of that post.

Sure, they both have human beings and streets. That's about where the similarities end. But thanks for the laughs!

And for the rest of your post, no one was comparing Boston/Cambridge with DC. The subject matter was the comparison of the cold, pedestrian- unfriendly Innovation District to Bethesda Maryland.

Friendly word of advice: You DO know a thing or two, so attempting to stay on subjects where you have knowledge would do wonders for your posts.
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Shmess -- I've an uncle who lived in Bethesda from the days of when like Wellesley it was just a Commuter Rail stop for rich people commuting to DC with a few Fed hospital buildings [circa 1960]

But specifically my comments were not about comparing the architecture of the two [outside of the single family homes] nor was I comparing the Transit Oriented Developments -- I was mostly comparing the general standard of living of both populaces:

On that basis on a scale of 1-10 if Bethesda is a 9 and then so is a Wellesley

Here is a fair comparison summary mostly from the Wikipedia articles on the two places:\
Summary: Bethesda Wellesley
Population: 55,277 26,613
Age: 41 38.2
Education [B+/Adv deg]: 79% / 49% 79.3%/46.0%
Income [fam/indv] $168,385/$58,479 $155,539/$61,332.
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Bethesda is larger, and now of course since its on a subway line more urbanized -- but the rest is mostly very very similar

Note that Brookline could also be in that comparison very very similar as well
 
stellarfun said:
One doesn't need vibrancy everywhere. The vibrancy of the NIH campus (next to Bethesda) is non-existent, same for across the street at the Walter Reed hospital complex.

'Vibrant' Bethesda is a small village oasis that blossomed up in the middle of a big single-family residential 'burb of DC. Use street view in Bethesda of Elm and Woodmont, or 4800 block of Bethesda Ave, to take a walk around Bethesda, and that's illustrative of the vibrancy of the 'hood, --in essence, conversions of a single story, commercial / service-oriented establishment district into retail and restaurants. And nobody walks between Bethesda and Chevy Chase (Friendship Heights), and nobody walks to Saks or, for that matter, to Louis Vuitton. Cartier, Tiffany, etc. (street view 5454 Wisconsin Ave Chevy Chase MD)
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Stel -- as my Uncle Joe would say -- Exactly

Until quite recently Bethesda was all about access to the Beltway
 
Matthew said:
I stayed in Rosslyn for a few days last time around and found the streets to be fairly busy with pedestrians, despite the street-level of many buildings being crappy. Probably due to the Metro station.

I did see one new development going up that looked a lot more promising than the existing stuff.

There's government buildings in Rosslyn which probably helped contribute to the deadness. The Seaport should have done better.
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Mathew -- anything Federal these days is not good urbanism -- because of the mania for security -- these complexes are like speak-easys in the days of Capone -- you need to know the pass code just to see a human face on a screen or worse

I've worked on ...... in the vicinity of Wilson Blvd. and it was not fun -- the only good thing about that whole part of the DC area was the relatively short walk to the Metro from Reagan National Airport when you are commuting from Logan -- and when you only had a morning meeting you could pop over to a museum on the National Mall for an hour or two before heading home
 
Your pictures are always top-notch BeeLine! Out of curiosity, did you snap any of the Envoy Hotel site near Barking Crab?
 
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