The New Retail Thread

[datadyne007]

Now that is a market building.

 

[mass88]

I almost think they should extend the building to cover the areas where the vendors currently occupy (and make a mess of) to have it all be indoors. That way when it rains people can still come.

Not to mention how dirty and unsightly the current vendors are with their trash strewn all over the place.

 

[AmericanFolkLegend]

My one complaint about the location is that there's currently a hedge fence blocking pedestrian access into the North End parks from Surface Road - that strikes me as awkward. If I grab a few things from the market and want to eat it in the park then I'd want to be able to jaywalk/sprint across the street (and expect that traffic is calmed and slow enough to allow me to do so) [/entitled bostonian]

Shep, I think that hedge and the grade separation is one of the reasons that the NE Parks work better than any other parcels on the RKG (i.e., separation from the Surface Artery). So while I agree, there should be easier access between the public market and the NE Parks, they'll need to be careful to keep the NE Parks from feeling like the median strip that the rest of the RKG resembles.

 

[czsz]

Now that is a market building.

Now that it's become such an acceptable part of the landscape of Seattle it seems that way, but just imagine the reaction on this forum if a one-story market were proposed for around this site...with perpendicular surface parking, no less!

(yes, I know the market spills down the hillside behind this picture and is thus more than one story, but that is not the aesthetic impression one gets when looking at it from uphill in downtown Seattle, as in this perspective, from which it's most often approached)

I almost think they should extend the building to cover the areas where the vendors currently occupy (and make a mess of) to have it all be indoors. That way when it rains people can still come.

Not to mention how dirty and unsightly the current vendors are with their trash strewn all over the place.

If you're talking about Haymarket then I vehemently disagree. First, how is this building going to be extended over the street(s)? Second, I actually like the vaguely ramshackle third-world chaos of that market; it's one of the last remnants of unpolished, vaguely medieval Old Boston in an area that's been otherwise ruined by the deadening effects of urban renewal from City Hall Plaza to the Greenway.

p.s. Isn't there a thread for this project? This discussion should be moved there...

 

[HenryAlan]

Surprised no one has mentioned what a ripoff the sign is of the iconic ones at Pike Place in Seattle:

There is a sign much closer to home that this is patterned after:

As for this:

Now that is a market building.

Los Angeles has another market that is more along the lines of Pike's Place Market:

Most Angelenos consider it to be the inferior of the two. It's not always about the building, but it is always about how the building is used.

If you're talking about Haymarket then I vehemently disagree. First, how is this building going to be extended over the street(s)? Second, I actually like the vaguely ramshackle third-world chaos of that market; it's one of the last remnants of unpolished, vaguely medieval Old Boston in an area that's been otherwise ruined by the deadening effects of urban renewal from City Hall Plaza to the Greenway.

p.s. Isn't there a thread for this project? This discussion should be moved there...

Agree on all counts.

 

[czsz]

^ Agree that it riffs off the Union Oyster House sign as well, but the fact that it's basically the same red color with "Public Market" text directed my mind instantly to Seattle. If Pike Place didn't exist, I wouldn't be thinking it was derivative for copying the look and style of Union Oyster House (in fact, it would be more than welcome), but as it is, I think the rip-off is a bit too blatant and risks making Boston look deeply uninspired.

Have the sign read "Boston Haymarket" or even better just "Haymarket" and/or color it green or blue? Then I'll be happy.

 

[datadyne007]

^ Agree that it riffs off the Union Oyster House sign as well, but the fact that it's basically the same red color with "Public Market" text directed my mind instantly to Seattle. If Pike Place didn't exist, I wouldn't be thinking it was derivative for copying the look and style of Union Oyster House (in fact, it would be more than welcome), but as it is, I think the rip-off is a bit too blatant and risks making Boston look deeply uninspired.

Have the sign read "Boston Haymarket" or even better just "Haymarket" and/or color it green or blue? Then I'll be happy.

I like the idea of marketing "Haymarket." It is already such an established and successful market that is an integral part of Boston culture. The sign would be dual-purpose as-well because that building happens to be one of the T entrances.

 

[Bubbybu]

nothing says organic fresh food like vent towers

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Believe it or not -- It looks as though a Public Farmers Market may be approaching reality
http://www.bostonpublicmarket.org/?s=

Boston Public Market Association to Present Food Market Proposal at Open Meeting on March 13, 2012

http://www.mass.gov/agr/public-market/docs/3212-bpma-sectioni.pdf

 

[Beton Brut]

Because their concept in Palm Beach will be exactly like their concept in Boston...

Kinda...The Yard House is essentially a Cheesecake Factory for beer.

Generic "upscale" bar food. A bunch of beers on tap....It will actually fit in quite well with the pink hats and tourists at Fenway.

I'm neither a pink hat, nor a tourist, and I've no appetite for the generic. This is a safe, suburban brand, steps away from the the ballpark. They'll make a mint, but it just bums me out. I still miss DeliHaus.

I've been to two of these, and the experience varied by location. The first was in an urban/water front location in Long Beach California (think SPID). It was a lot of fun, though I admit, I did not at the time realize it was a chain, which had I known, might have sub-consciously lessened the fun.

Beer, wings, and George Thorogood go well on the water.

The second was at Legacy Place, which is, unfortunately, at Legacy Place.

Never been there.

A Fenway location is probably a good idea. First, BeerWorks is too crowded before games. Second, BeerWorks could use a shot of competition. They have not been nearly as good over the past few years as they once were.

I agree with the need for competition, and on Beer Works slipping a bit. Brookline Ave needs a place like Audubon or An Tua Nua.

 

[whighlander]

I like the idea of marketing "Haymarket." It is already such an established and successful market that is an integral part of Boston culture. The sign would be dual-purpose as-well because that building happens to be one of the T entrances.

Data -- The problem is that this market wants to be distinguished from the Haymarket

If you want a simple way to separate the two:
1) Haymarket is traditional, temporary and cheap with produce from where ever
2) Public market is moderne, permanent and expensive with artisanal bread, sheep milk smoked Gouda Cheese and Belgian Endive -- hand selected by Mike D his-self

Who goes to each:
1) Haymarket: Tourists looking for local color, students and other locals looking for cheap and sometimes marginal produce
2) Public Market: Tourists looking for some artisanal bread, sheep milk smoked Gouda Cheese, chefs of local restaurants, upper-middle class Yuppies and DINKs

 

[whighlander]

By the way -- the finest Public Market I've ever seen was in Budapest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Budapest_great_market_hall.jpg

 

[Ron Newman]

Is Yard House a brewpub? If not, they aren't really competition for Boston Beer Works.

 

[Sicilian]

I personally think a market should be able to identify itself architecturally and contextually without the need for giant signs.

Agree.

If the market itself is terrific -- with goods so special that Boston residents would walk or hop on the T to go there for -- it won't need ham-handed signage. In fact, it might benefit from a certain cache having no signage.

As it is, the red sign draws attention to the vent stacks which, as Bubbyu points out, are not especially appetizing.

 

[HenryAlan]

Is Yard House a brewpub? If not, they aren't really competition for Boston Beer Works.

It's not a brewpub, but it is nevertheless competition. People seeking good beer might opt for either one, depending on mood and how attractive each makes itself. Both are founding there business on the premise that customers seek good and unique beers. The strategies are different, but the customer is the same person.

 

[BeeLine]

The Yard also features a very nice patio on the Van Ness Str. (south facing) side of the building.

 

[Ron Newman]

Does the Yard House feature its own beers, like a brewpub does?

 

[HenryAlan]

Does the Yard House feature its own beers, like a brewpub does?

No,that's not the basis for whether they compete, though. The vast majority of BeerWorks patrons are there either because they like good beer or because it is across the street from Fenway Park. Those same people will go to the Yardhouse for the same reasons.

there is a much smaller group who goes to BeerWorks specifically for beer brewed on location. The YardHouse won't get them, but that's a very small minority. It's even likely that for every one of them, there's a BeerWorks customer frustrated by the limited selection. BeerWorks will now lose that second group.

 

[Ron Newman]

I found the Dedham Yard House beer menu (Boston's isn't posted yet). Looks like there are a few 'Yard House Craft Beers' of their own, along with a pretty long list of micros and a few non-micros.

 

[jass]

Yard house does make some beers and buys local beers as well.

Also, their food menu is pretty decent. I was impressed when I had it in LA.