Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Nope, just a normal person who enjoys urban living with no real estate affiliation whatsoever. I’m allergic to conspiratorial nativist nonsense though, so I’ll probably keep giving you a hard time as long as you use vague, coded, hollow scare quotes. Cheers!

EDIT: saw you updated your last post to suggest illegal aliens are living in the (checks notes) 60+ story luxury high rise on the tax payer dime. This is just bad trolling. Not taking the bait anymore!
 
I was doing nothing of the sort (and thus I'm genuinely sorry you misinterpreted me); I was merely pushing back against Johnnyrocket's post, which I feel was typically divisive, populist, class-baiting, Us Vs. Them rhetoric--more Howie Carr Lite.
The attitude towards that person I do understand, I have them on ignore
 
"The Locals" downtown Boston.
Who are the locals?
* International Investors that purchased 10 floors of condo units?
* BlackRock/Hedge Funds using the private Federal Reserve bank printing press funds to buy units (which is actually the American Taxpayers money) To rent out units to corporate/Political elite?
*Subsidized units which is paid by the American taxpayers for a life.
* Possible Migrant (illegal Alien) asylum's

Who is actually renting/buying these units?
Are they really locals?
Any human capable of walking a few blocks would be considered "locals" to Winthrop Square / tower. I would consider both commuters who are working in the financial district or nearby residents.
 
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For all the complaints that it isn't what was advertised, it IS a very nice space. Just needs people.

It IS nice. But it isn't a public connector as was advertised. It's a nice hotel-like lobby. Not the almost Time Out Market type spot it was originally portrayed.

1719441563323.png
- original render - notice no furniture obstacles

Your last sentence in that post is there for a reason.
Not having too many people is EXACTLY how the developer finally wanted it. They purposely changed the interior around by placing all those furniture obstacle hurdles and the entry doorways are not exactly large archways or anything like that but small individual doors.

They purposely by design killed the "public connector" aspect. I hate that. We have enough small clubby atmospheres in Boston - - and need large civic spaces/connectors.

But yes, like many gated communities in Florida suburbs, it is "nice". The "Banned in Boston" parochial small reputation of the 50's and 60's still exists in the tendency to bunt instead of swing. I still prefer a future where Boston has 1+ million residents, is 24/7 and dynamic - - -instead of the "ya can't move here, we're closed " attitude.
 
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Your last sentence in that post is there for a reason. Not having too many people is EXACTLY how the developer finally wanted it. They purposely changed the interior around by placing all those furniture obstacle hurdles and the entry doorways are not exactly large archways or anything like that but small individual doors.

They purposely by design killed the "public connector" aspect. I hate that. We have enough small clubby atmospheres in Boston - - and need large civic spaces/connectors.

But yes, like many gated communities in Florida suburbs, it is "nice". The "Banned in Boston" parochial small reputation of the 50's and 60's still exists in the tendency to bunt instead of swing. I still prefer a future where Boston has 1+ million residents, is 24/7 and dynamic - - -instead of the "ya can't move here, we're closed " attitude.

shmessy, I always appreciate your candor and willingness to state your mind and buck the groupthink that sometimes materializes here. While all of your observations about the bait-and-switch are valid here, I think you're picking the wrong fight on this one.

First off, van qualified his statement by first acknowledging the bait-and-switch...

My take: I want downtown Boston revitalized, and with throngs of people hanging out, passing through, enjoying what there is to offer. I am angered that a developer can make a mockery of the design review process by submitting renders that aren't even physically possible (i.e., the grade between streets is not level here, the hall could have never even looked like what your render shows). I am also angered that they can just change their programming on a whim (of what is supposed to be a dedicated public benefit component of their design), rather than re-assessing the value of their revised design with stakeholders.

That said: A) their initial design was not physically possible, B) we had a once-a-century global catastrophe between then and now causing the "throngs of people" to not even exist at the moment, C) most of the "obstacles" you are referring to are portable and can be moved to clear out the hall at any time, allowing the whole physical experience of this place to basically be reset at some point. I know this because I have eaten here and observed it. If and when the whole context (this place and its surroundings) results in there actually being throngs of people, the interior layout can be substantively altered (not to the point of the original render -- but substantively nonetheless)

Neither the original proposal (impossible and flawed) nor the current state (invalidly sprung on us without adequate re-review IMO) make sense. BOTH were poor examples of human-centered design -- note that in your old render, there are food vendors, but hardly a place to sit. How popular of a food vending experience was this going to be with virtually no places to sit in the whole place?

Given the hand the designers were dealt (note that I am saying designers, not the developer) after the project was started and pandemic hit, they did a nice job with the design.
Not everyone who has a hand in how a place turns out is in fact the blameworthy bad guy, much as blameworthy bad guys exist.
 
It IS nice. But it isn't a public connector as was advertised. It's a nice hotel-like lobby. Not the almost Time Out Market type spot it was originally portrayed.

View attachment 51985 - original render - notice no furniture obstacles

Your last sentence in that post is there for a reason.
Not having too many people is EXACTLY how the developer finally wanted it. They purposely changed the interior around by placing all those furniture obstacle hurdles and the entry doorways are not exactly large archways or anything like that but small individual doors.

They purposely by design killed the "public connector" aspect. I hate that. We have enough small clubby atmospheres in Boston - - and need large civic spaces/connectors.

But yes, like many gated communities in Florida suburbs, it is "nice". The "Banned in Boston" parochial small reputation of the 50's and 60's still exists in the tendency to bunt instead of swing. I still prefer a future where Boston has 1+ million residents, is 24/7 and dynamic - - -instead of the "ya can't move here, we're closed " attitude.
Neither a 24/7 or a plus million city will never happen. Boston now continually loses population, and 24/7 improbable.
 
Not having too many people is EXACTLY how the developer finally wanted it. They purposely changed the interior around by placing all those furniture obstacle hurdles and the entry doorways are not exactly large archways or anything like that but small individual doors.

They purposely by design killed the "public connector" aspect.

Ok, I'll bite. Why then would the developer want fewer people congregating in the lobby, the great hall, whatever label you want to call it?
 
shmessy, I always appreciate your candor and willingness to state your mind and buck the groupthink that sometimes materializes here. While all of your observations about the bait-and-switch are valid here, I think you're picking the wrong fight on this one.

First off, van qualified his statement by first acknowledging the bait-and-switch...

My take: I want downtown Boston revitalized, and with throngs of people hanging out, passing through, enjoying what there is to offer. I am angered that a developer can make a mockery of the design review process by submitting renders that aren't even physically possible (i.e., the grade between streets is not level here, the hall could have never even looked like what your render shows). I am also angered that they can just change their programming on a whim (of what is supposed to be a dedicated public benefit component of their design), rather than re-assessing the value of their revised design with stakeholders.

That said: A) their initial design was not physically possible, B) we had a once-a-century global catastrophe between then and now causing the "throngs of people" to not even exist at the moment, C) most of the "obstacles" you are referring to are portable and can be moved to clear out the hall at any time, allowing the whole physical experience of this place to basically be reset at some point. I know this because I have eaten here and observed it. If and when the whole context (this place and its surroundings) results in there actually being throngs of people, the interior layout can be substantively altered (not to the point of the original render -- but substantively nonetheless)

Neither the original proposal (impossible and flawed) nor the current state (invalidly sprung on us without adequate re-review IMO) make sense. BOTH were poor examples of human-centered design -- note that in your old render, there are food vendors, but hardly a place to sit. How popular of a food vending experience was this going to be with virtually no places to sit in the whole place?

Given the hand the designers were dealt (note that I am saying designers, not the developer) after the project was started and pandemic hit, they did a nice job with the design.
Not everyone who has a hand in how a place turns out is in fact the blameworthy bad guy, much as blameworthy bad guys exist.

I wasn’t arguing with Van at all. Sorry it sounded that way.
 
Ok, I'll bite. Why then would the developer want fewer people congregating in the lobby, the great hall, whatever label you want to call it?

Ok, I’ll answer:

The same reason gated community developers in Florida do. Because their clients - - -the people buying or renting the space want it that way - - they aren’t building for the public, it is a private building. The fact that it went to such lengths to promise public BENEFITS with zero actual intent to deliver them is disingenuous and hurts the city. i will always be against something like that.

They had every right to make it what it now is. Just be honest from the get go. But they knew that the tower would be a harder sell for approval without the detailed renderings of “The Connector”. I’m sorry, when a corporation pulls a bait and switch on the public, I don’t respond “Please, may I have some more, sir”.
 
Ok, I’ll answer:

The same reason gated community developers in Florida do. Because their clients - - -the people buying or renting the space want it that way - - they aren’t building for the public, it is a private building. The fact that it went to such lengths to promise public BENEFITS with zero actual intent to deliver them is disingenuous and hurts the city. i will always be against something like that.

They had every right to make it what it now is. Just be honest from the get go. But they knew that the tower would be a harder sell for approval without the detailed renderings of “The Connector”. I’m sorry, when a corporation pulls a bait and switch on the public, I don’t respond “Please, may I have some more, sir”.
Interesting response. Then why would the developer still be promoting it?

 
Neither a 24/7 or a plus million city will never happen. Boston now continually loses population, and 24/7 improbable.

Boston has recently begun to lose population because of lack of HOUSING SUPPLY - - are home/condo prices falling?????? Nope. https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Boston_MA/overview

Boston has been slipping because of its continued love of the bunt (knee jerk “no’s” to Olympics, NSRL, Blue-Red Connector, etc. because “it’s too hard!!!!”). and failure to hold developers responsible for their part (The “Connector”, etc.).

Boston could and should have over 1 million people, and be a 24/7 city of the highest intellectual per capita on earth. Yet the 1970’s Boston negatived NIMBY attitude still exists. The positive is that it is slowly changing as the Dapper O’Neil and Louise Day Hicks types die off.
 
Interesting response. Then why would the developer still be promoting it?


Answer: To sell space in the building to make money - - - and to somehow give veneer to the BPDA so that, for its future proposals, they can continue to piss on the BPDA’s head and claim that it‘s rain…….and get away with it.

They will want to build again in Boston - - they can't simply now say "Ha, ha, we fooled you!". So they simply redefine the meaning of the term "The Connector" as no longer a conduit for foot traffic (among other things) but a place where professionals can come and "connect" for business (nothing wrong with that, but, again, nowhere near what they were selling it to get the city approval).
 
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They will want to build again in Boston

That's quite the bold assertion, coming from someone who is presumably neither a.) on the development team nor b.) James Arthur Jemison.

What do you know--other than that land and labor costs are ruinously expensive, energy efficiency and affordable housing mitigation impositions are equally fearsome, and, especially, the interest rate environment has been punishing now for quite some time, especially for an outfit that, due to specializing in extremely large-scale developments in the most expensive urban markets, is obligated to borrow by the billions?
 
That's quite the bold assertion, coming from someone who is presumably neither a.) on the development team nor b.) James Arthur Jemison.

What do you know--other than that land and labor costs are ruinously expensive, energy efficiency and affordable housing mitigation impositions are equally fearsome, and, especially, the interest rate environment has been punishing now for quite some time, especially for an outfit that, due to specializing in extremely large-scale developments in the most expensive urban markets, is obligated to borrow by the billions?
It'd be pretty strange for them to stop growing their Boston portfolio forever... They will likely take a pause as the financing on this was probably a bit painful/not the best outcome, but the interest rate environment you bring up is in the now, while firms like this with billions in assets are thinking on much longer time scales.
 
Frankly, I find the connector is absolutely fine - project change wise I'm more disappointed with the consequences of the reduced funding for Tai Tung.

That said, is MP working on any projects anywhere? They just pulled the plug on Hollywood Center, and their other LA project on Sunset hasn't moved either, plus the SF tower is sinking again despite the last fix.
 
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