Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Some of the nighttime renderings are okay.
Daytime renderings are bland

This development reminds me of a upgradable 21st century version of 33 arch st.

Nothing really stands out —where i’m Excited - this has to be built. It’s like they are forcing this on us.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I think one last change they could make is keep the ground floor on the T where its at, but above the great hall or offices get rid of the skybridge and put it right against the tower. The entrance would stick out like a box on this side, which I think could actually look pretty cool, then the rest of this part of the tower would be back a bit and up against the tower. This would get rid of some of the width and also make that part of the building more connected vs having a skybridge between them. The floor plan would be a T without having to walk between. I think this would be a great final touch up to really get this thing right and from those side on shots it would slim the tower up while the floor plans would make more sense. I know they used it to kind of make it look like its a different tower. It doesnt...


The darker tan part at ground level would stay put while above that the floor plates are up against the tower. I know the office portion is wider so maybe above the offices push it up against the tower. You only see the upper half for the most part and the clear glass part is what kind of gives it the bulk of two towers.



Something similar to 45 stuart st.

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Then looking at it from an angle like these the clear glass part would not be there making it significantly thinner from the side on view. It seems like it would also look better because both blue glass parts of the tower would match up without that weird gap in between them. I think it would look better with a thinner footprint vs attempting to make them look like two separate towers. Then with the 45 stuart st esque bump out at ground level the street wall is still preserved on that side.







One thing I wonder though, at higher floors is that glass skybridge like a glass on both sides hallway to the back master bedroom/bathroom or something? That would be insanely badass and something I haven't seen.....anywhere. Maybe one of the most badass things ever done in modern residential architecture if thats the case. I don't know though how exactly it works. If not they should do that.
 
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Tons of nice, modern glass - this thing will stand up well in the coming decades unlike some other Boston buildings.

I will say it, it would be nice if this were taller by another 80-100 feet so it stood out a little bit more. Now drink.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

mass88 said:
Tons of nice, modern glass - this thing will stand up well in the coming decades unlike some other Boston buildings.

I will say it, it would be nice if this were taller by another 80-100 feet so it stood out a little bit more. Now drink.
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Yup, especially when looking from this angle you can see theres even some height left on the table here. Probably due to them not factoring ground elevation or something idk, but I hope its at least as high on the horizon as 1IP or else some height was left on the table.




That being said though I think it will be closer to 1IPs height in real life from this perspective and having a lit crown finally over downtown at night is going to be great. Someone described the city as looking like the death star at night lol and thats pretty accurate. It was cool in a way but that time is passing and its going to be cooler having a lit crown over downtowns tallest, finally.

It is essentially a flat roof, even though it has the cuts in it making it literally look like a crown, which I like a lot, but from across the harbor it looks like another flat roof so the govt ctr office tower cant come fast enough to swing the balance back away from that.

Were going to have a very nice little waterfront skyline in just a couple years. From the harbor perspective IMO its going to rival many of the greats height being set aside comparatively because thats not all that important tbh. As long as they're tall "enough" and work well together and theres enough of them they will get the job done. Im not saying were going to have the best or a better waterfront skyline than other cities, buuuuut its going to be very nice and pull its weight, punching well outside its weight class imo for what will be mostly sub 600 footers and less with a couple +600' towers bringing the whole thing together. All the towers play nice at the waters edge and whats coming down the pipeline is really going to bring it all full circle and finish what was started. We even have that reclad still coming too at some point which will add another lit crown as well and SOME day SST will be in there as well.

SST is another major balance shifting tower that Im interested in seeing how it works out where from Eastie it will be the tallest building on the skyline off to the far left shifting the peak away and to the side. 1 Dalton is another tower like this moving the high spine off to the right and getting rid of the twin towers aspect you get with the Pru and Hancock from so many angles where you split the towers like 93 north from south of the city or the pike eastbound coming into the city. Im interested to see how these shifts affect the "balance" or whatever we want to call it with the city. Im welcoming them in though and its just going to take some getting used to what we now have which we didn't before. As everybody knows this is where towers like Copley are so important to compliment 1 Dalton on the skyline and the Hub on Causeways office tower is important in complimenting SST on the other end of the skyline. Thats why those have to get done and done right because they are major anchor pieces that have huge effects on the skyline overall.
 
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

It’s amazing how little impact this will have on the skyline from many vantage points given that it is the tallest building in this area.


I can live with this design. Some of the originals were better, but they aren’t going back. This is decent. Time to break ground!
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

It will definitely have an effect at night from that angle being the only tower of that height having a lit crown.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Let's just take a moment to appreciate the fact that we got renderings that aren't all concocted at perfect golden hour with a cotton candy sky and 20 flattering light sources. I'm guessing I'm not alone in thinking those daylight renders were rather underwhelming, but not because they're bad -- we're so conditioned to see blustery fluffjobs that when confronted with a set of realistic images showing what the project will look like 95% of the time (what a concept!) we almost don't even know how to process them.

But several times--namely with the render from the Charles showing how prominent it will be next to Millennium Tower--did I think to myself, "oh so THAT'S how it'll look... got it" which is something I rarely think or feel when seeing renders, and that's kinda sad.

Now if only the building being rendered was actually worth this many renders.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

BosDevelop said:
Nope! I worked at 101 Federal from 1998 through 2016 and I can say for certain that the bike messengers (and assorted cohorts) have been hanging in that park for the better part of the day since at least the late 90s and likely long before. The park has definitely been packed with these folks when the garage was open and the line of cars to get in, due to the relatively cheap prices, spilled well down Devonshire.
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Right. Like everywhere else in that general area, Winthrop Sq. is traversed with huge volumes of pedestrian traffic at morning rush hour, lunchttime, evening rush hour, then is pretty much dead. The park itself, however, is pretty much underutilized all the time, insofar as tiny clusters of 4-6 bike messengers at a time lolling about, smoking, isn't really vibrant activation.

But when you consider the bigger picture of Winthrop Square:

JEWELS: 1 Winthrop Square, 20 Winthrop Square--grand dames both built in 1873 in immediate aftermath of fire. 75 Federal Street--Art Deco masterpiece especially with its jaw-dropping wraparound mural.

HIDDEN GEM: Winthrop Lane, with the cute little embedded bricks humorously chronicling watershed moments in Boston history.

JUST FINE: 10 Winthrop Square, 101 Federal Street

UNFORTUNATE: St. Anthony Shrine's dead street wall.


DANGER WILL ROBINSON!: so many pedestrians traverse the square on different vectors and have to contend with so many T buses in the morning and evening commute along with other random traffic. There needs to be a permanent dedicated crosswalk... but should it maroon pedestrians on that tiny island in the middle? The island seems almost like an attractive nuisance, given how it looks like a refuge from traffic but really only encourages pedestrians to expose themselves to risk. Eliminate the island, then, probably.

POLITICAL WILD-CARD: The folks in Fenway want their Robert Burns statue back. How can that situation be finessed skillfully in a way that is a win-win for all? Given that the original story of how Robert Burns got to Winthrop Sq. is so quintessentially Boston, some sort of new monument, in place of the statue, that colorfully evokes the murky, bizarre, convoluted backstory?

Lots of pieces here to address. Accentuate the positives--which are many!-- camouflage the negatives (which aren't too bad!), etc. Can't please everyone but go for the vision that is least offensive to the great mass of all. The perfect is the enemy of the good, etc.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I'm rather fond of the Winthrop Square park. It's a good place to gobble down w Chacarero sandwich on a nice day.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I like this tower. That said, the downtown needs a peak, and this isn't it. 800' would do it. To some extent, aesthetics do matter.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Agreed. I am much happier that this actually look really good. The height is secondary at best.

I really like how this is going to look.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

JSic said:
I like this tower. That said, the downtown needs a peak, and this isn't it. 800' would do it. To some extent, aesthetics do matter.
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Are you prepared to move Logan? Because that is what it will take.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Honestly, you wouldn't have to move Logan Airport to build tall. You would just have to re-align the runways so they don't fly over downtown. Toronto has an airport right next to downtown but the runways are aligned so it doesn't fly through downtown. Re-aligning runway 9/27 by filling in the bay so that the runway aligns with Castle Island would open up downtown for more height. It's really runway 9/27 that's causing all the problem.

Or better yet, replace runway 9/27 with an extended 14/32 runway.

The question would be is if the city can convince the new neighbors to allow flights to fly over their houses.
 
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

JeffDowntown said:
Are you prepared to move Logan? Because that is what it will take.
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According to the height limit map, 800' is allowed in some areas of downtown.

I remember years ago there's was talk of building a tower at the St Anthony's shrine on Arch St. That's the perfect spot for an 800' peak.


PS - I wish Logan would get bulldozed. It will happen, but not in any of our lifetimes.
 
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

KentXie said:
Honestly, you wouldn't have to move Logan Airport to build tall. You would just have to re-align the runways so they don't fly over downtown. Toronto has an airport right next to downtown but the runways are aligned so it doesn't fly through downtown. Re-aligning runway 9/27 by filling in the bay so that the runway aligns with Castle Island would open up downtown for more height. It's really runway 9/27 that's causing all the problem.

Or better yet, replace runway 9/27 with an extended 14/32 runway.

The question would be is if the city can convince the new neighbors to allow flights to fly over their houses.
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Believe it or not, runway alignments are not picked for architectural considerations. They are chosen for air traffic safety, based on dominant wind directions at the airport, so that aircraft can generally take off and land directly into the wind. I am sure 9/27 matches one of the dominant compass directions for the wind in Boston, and given our high average wind speed here, you really do not want to create more cross-wind take off and landing situations.

Toronto just happens to be lucky that their dominant wind directions do not take flights over downtown; it certainly was not planned to make the skyline higher. That is simply not how airports are designed!
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I though the issue downtown was radar coverage and not runway alignment. Downtown is not in the path of 9/27.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

TallIsGood said:
I though the issue downtown was radar coverage and not runway alignment. Downtown is not in the path of 9/27.
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They probably need radar coverage over that area because planes are flying low through that corridor to land or take off from that runway and the path is close enough to downtown to restrict the height.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Makes sense. The airway is the defined path of the flight plan format.

i would think they would reserve the air next to it as part of any potential flight path of a plane that suffers a bird strike or other emergency that is turning back to Logan, out of its climb, rapidly losing airspeed.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Too much junk in the trunk?
 
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