Avalon Exeter | 77 Exeter Street | Back Bay

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If only they had used the same language of the glass top on the whole tower with the glass and fins running all the way down to the street. That photo shows that the top part is so successful in being vertical and contemporary. The chunky base just ruins it. This would have been an incredibly beautiful tall glass tower on the Back Bay skyline.
 
^ Totally. It would have been stunning if the fins ran the full height of the building.
 
I'm more amazed at the 10k 3 bed. The bedrooms are large, but not THAT large. Also only two baths, a tiny kitchen, and lackluster closet space? The fixtures and amenities must be REALLY nice...

Edit, from their website:

Community Amenities
Smoke-free community
Pet friendly
24-hour concierge
State-of-the-art fitness center
Convenient, indoor access to Copley Place and The Shops at Prudential Center
Complimentary package acceptance
Underground parking available
Underground access to Back Bay T Stations, Shaw’s Supermarket and retail shopping
24-hour emergency maintenance
On-site ZipCar
30-Day Move-in Guarantee

Where is this tunnel I've never heard of?
 
It seems like every new housing project is being marketed as "luxury." Is there really such a demand for luxury? I realize it is how they make the most money, but is is economical unfeasible to market new residential NOT as these super high prices? 3k for a studio is quite ridiculous.
 
davem said:
I'm more amazed at the 10k 3 bed. The bedrooms are large, but not THAT large. Also only two baths, a tiny kitchen, and lackluster closet space? The fixtures and amenities must be REALLY nice...

Edit, from their website:

Community Amenities
Smoke-free community
Pet friendly
24-hour concierge
State-of-the-art fitness center
Convenient, indoor access to Copley Place and The Shops at Prudential Center
Complimentary package acceptance
Underground parking available
Underground access to Back Bay T Stations, Shaw’s Supermarket and retail shopping
24-hour emergency maintenance
On-site ZipCar
30-Day Move-in Guarantee

Where is this tunnel I've never heard of?
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You can actually go down to the green level (P2) in the Pru and take an elevator up into Shaw's. It's a bit ridiculous and convoluted though. The Back Bay access is the same access anyone has walking from the Pru into Copley Place and down. It's kind of ridiculous marketing, but they need to advertise Back Bay somehow.
 
mdd said:
It seems like every new housing project is being marketed as "luxury." Is there really such a demand for luxury? I realize it is how they make the most money, but is is economical unfeasible to market new residential NOT as these super high prices? 3k for a studio is quite ridiculous.
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The other thing I don't get is if you can afford to drop 3-5k a month in rent, why not just get a condo? It might not be as luxurious but you will be building equity which would be much smarter for the long term. As far as I can see it seems the only way it makes sense to rent in these places would be for very short term stays or if you literally are swimming in money and can just throw it away and don't want the hassle of ownership. Of course as somebody who's never been close to making that kind of an income I might be missing something here...
 
pixelsand8 said:
The other thing I don't get is if you can afford to drop 3-5k a month in rent, why not just get a condo? It might not be as luxurious but you will be building equity which would be much smarter for the long term. As far as I can see it seems the only way it makes sense to rent in these places would be for very short term stays or if you literally are swimming in money and can just throw it away and don't want the hassle of ownership. Of course as somebody who's never been close to making that kind of an income I might be missing something here...
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I feel like I spend half my time explaining to old people why I don't buy a house, so I've got my explanation for this pretty well organized:

There are a lot of reasons not to buy that are glossed over in markets where houses/condos cost $150k. In a market like Boston with very high prices, those reasons are more evident.

1) Down payment. Just because you can pay the mortgage on a $1 million place doesn't mean you have $200k today to put down on it.

2) Even if you had the $200k, putting it in a house means not putting that money in the market. When you don't have much money it doesn't make a lot of difference if all your eggs are in one basket (the house) leveraged 4:1. Its still not a lot of money. Most would call that an insane investment, but somehow it is ok as long as it is a house... People are completely irrational about the "value" of buying houses. To people who count their piggy bank in the hundreds of thousands, they usually invest more prudently.

3) If you use a very thorough rent vs. buy calculator that includes expected market return, anticipate maintenance expenses, etc you'll usually find break-even time frame is 5-7 years even at today's historically low interest rates. Careless planners and real estate agents usually quote 2-3 years.

So, to get around to answering the question - who should rent expensive apartments instead of buying expensive houses/condos?


- A person who doesn't think they want to stay in one place for more than 5-7 years. Unless there is the some emotional component to add to the equation, the facts say this should be an easy choice.

- A person/couple who expects their income to increase significantly in the near term. There is little incentive to *lock-in* your housing expenses with a 30-year mortgage if you are going to be able to afford a nicer place sooner than the 5-7 years. An example would be someone with a high paying job and moderate student debt (doctor or lawyer). Their incomes grow rapidly and when the loans are finally paid their income might jump by a couple $k per month.

- A person/couple who doesn't expect their expenses to increase with time doesn't care about locking-in a mortgage payment either. Examples: a single person or couple who doesn't have or want children. Older workers and retirees whose children are grown and financially independent
 
Do those calculators take into account the future value of any rent you may get? I recently bought a place in Fenway (last spring when the rates were low!), which I intend to live in for a few years. Once I decide to move out, I won't sell - I'll rent. Right now at market rental prices I'd break even on my mortgage + condo fees. Given a few years and all the development going on, I figure I could get $300-400/month on top of my mortgage, plus I'm having someone else pay into my equity on the condo.

Another point is that Boston is a city with many industries: Finance, Tech, Education, Healthcare, Tourism, Government and Biotech are the big ones. Overall it has a lot going for it. It's highly unlikely that Boston real estate would see a huge price drop that you might see in the stock market. You might not get as much return on your investment, but it's certainly safer.

Your point about the down payment still stands though. I only put 15% down and it was a struggle to come up with that money. I had to dip into my 401k, which was a tough decision to make. In the end though, if you can afford the down payment, I would definitely suggest looking into buying. The rental potential is huge, and with rates as low as they are, in most situations you'd be able to break even on your mortgage after a few years.
 
FenwayResident said:
Do those calculators take into account the future value of any rent you may get? I recently bought a place in Fenway (last spring when the rates were low!), which I intend to live in for a few years. Once I decide to move out, I won't sell - I'll rent. Right now at market rental prices I'd break even on my mortgage + condo fees. Given a few years and all the development going on, I figure I could get $300-400/month on top of my mortgage, plus I'm having someone else pay into my equity on the condo.

Another point is that Boston is a city with many industries: Finance, Tech, Education, Healthcare, Tourism, Government and Biotech are the big ones. Overall it has a lot going for it. It's highly unlikely that Boston real estate would see a huge price drop that you might see in the stock market. You might not get as much return on your investment, but it's certainly safer.

Your point about the down payment still stands though. I only put 15% down and it was a struggle to come up with that money. I had to dip into my 401k, which was a tough decision to make. In the end though, if you can afford the down payment, I would definitely suggest looking into buying. The rental potential is huge, and with rates as low as they are, in most situations you'd be able to break even on your mortgage after a few years.
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Using property for income definitely makes buying more attractive, but you still need to run the numbers carefully. If I ever buy, it will likely be a multi-unit and I would be a live-in landlord to the units I don't personally occupy. That requires an even larger down payment, but at least returns will be higher than value appreciation alone.

You are right that the housing market is less volatile than the stock market and therefore comes with lower returns. The only reason to fear market volatility is if you are likely to need to take out all your money at one time. Buying and selling houses requires moving massive lump sums of money in individual transactions, often almost all the wealth a person has. It would be a unusual event that requires you to take all your money out of the market in the middle of big dip. The dip is a great opportunity to buy in even more!

Some people find security in the equity in their home. If they need cash or lose their job, they can always borrow against their equity. Equity in anything including stocks works the same way. If I lost my job tomorrow I could either sell some equity each month to cover my expenses until I have income again or just borrow against my equity (margin) if the interest rate was ok and I had a good reason not to sell anything at the moment.

For everyone the calculations are a little different and I certainly allow for an emotional component in those calculations. Some folks just *want* to own. That feeling is worth something to many people, I just caution anyone to be sure they understand the cost. Other people value the feeling of freedom and flexibility.

For me personally, in a break-even scenario of 5-7 years I would rather have rented because I value the freedom and flexibility. I might live in 2 or 3 different apartments/neighborhoods in that time and know that I can pick up and leave with relative ease. See - the renter doesn't actually have to rent the same place all 5-7 years. Someone else might rather enjoy owning, customizing the home, and saying put. If circumstances force a move in less than 5-7 years, the homeowner will lose money relative to the renter. If the homeowner upgrades homes after 10 years, he'll only have banked a little over break-even with the renter.

In the long haul (let's assume I stay in Central Square for the rest of my life) I'll lose some money because I rented, but I won't be 45 years old living in the same home I could afford when I was 27 (that's when I moved here). I'll live in a nicer place, certainly paying more money, but I'll be enjoying it.
 
Looks like a huge letter "T" when viewed on end from afar. I agree with similar comments that this building would have been more graceful if the fins and glass on the top of the building had extended all the way down the side of the building. Overall, this building feels so mediocre, but given it rose from nothing on some vacant patch of the prudential plaza, I'm not too going to get too bent out of shape over this outcome....
 
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