Our Lady of Good Voyage | Seaport Sq Parcel H | 55 - 57 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

[falcon42]

Its destruction of private property period. If you are OK with it, then invite the public to your front steps to scrape up.

 

[cca]

God ... I love this dialogue. Is the public urban environment a museum for lovely objects, is it a playground for whoever wants to do what they want, or is it somewhere in between.

I am guessing the answers to this are wide ranging. SO ... lets try to have an interesting conversation without resorting to ugliness. Its a cool subject.

cca

 

[Savin Hill]

This is an interesting discussion.

While the average skateboarder is probably not conceptualizing it this way and I myself don't necessarily agree with it, the appropriation of private property for ones own use, whatever that is... may it be skateboarding, sitting, graffiti, yarn bombing etc. can be framed as a political act defying the very idea of private property or at least looking to set more nuanced gradations along a public/private spectrum. Acts of this nature happen all over the city, people stroll around Harvard yard, sit on a stoop they don't own, teach their children how to ride a bike in an open parking lot, or plant a garden in a vacant lot. The list can go on and on. None of these are particularly destructive acts, which I clearly don't condone here, but they are all acts wherein people interact and negotiate with the very idea of public/private. I think at its base that's what this discussion is about; how various agents with competing interests and varying ideas of and respect for the simple mine yours distinction navigate their environment.

 

[cca]

I would argue that it is destructive because of its immediacy. People playing Pokemon Go in the public garden have worn a circle around on of the planting beds. Is this vandalism? Is it ban-able? It is (to steal a landscape design term) a desire line that should be reinforced.

People fishing over the side of the fish pier at Castle Island cause uneven degradation where they cut bait and land catch. So .. the park installed infrastructure to allow that activity. What if benches and knee walls were not designed with skate stops ... but with stainless steel edging to allow for the grinders to grind but not unevenly wear the materials?

cca

 

[Cortes]

People fishing over the side of the fish pier at Castle Island cause uneven degradation where they cut bait and land catch. So .. the park installed infrastructure to allow that activity. What if benches and knee walls were not designed with skate stops ... but with stainless steel edging to allow for the grinders to grind but not unevenly wear the materials?
cca

I completely agree with this sentiment, although... I smoke. I don't do it on church property, and I don't expect the church to pay to put an ashtray out.
The problem I have with having to design around the effects of skateboarding is that the skateboarders themselves seem to disregard the place they are skating at. Does the public library in Copley or a church seem to be a suitable place to skate? Just because the place has cool lines (or however you put it), doesn't mean it is ok to skate there. I will tell you, there are PLENTY of places in this city that have pretty cool skate-able areas. Hey skaters, POLICE YOURSELVES, and then nobody else will have to get involved.

 

[Cortes]

People fishing over the side of the fish pier at Castle Island cause uneven degradation where they cut bait and land catch. So .. the park installed infrastructure to allow that activity. What if benches and knee walls were not designed with skate stops ... but with stainless steel edging to allow for the grinders to grind but not unevenly wear the materials?
cca

I completely agree with this sentiment, although... I smoke. I don't do it on church property, and I don't expect the church to pay to put an ashtray out.
The problem I have with having to design around the effects of skateboarding is that the skateboarders themselves seem to disregard the place they are skating at. Does the public library in Copley or a church seem to be a suitable place to skate? Just because the place has cool lines (or however you put it), doesn't mean it is ok to skate there. I will tell you, there are PLENTY of places in this city that have pretty cool skate-able areas. Hey skaters, POLICE YOURSELVES, and then nobody else will have to get involved.

 

[Savin Hill]

Giving it some more thought, it seems possible that what is being conceived of as destructive acts can in fact be generative ones. For instance, a little granite wall that is unused in anyway possible becomes something that contains actual value to a skater who might utilize it. With that in mind we can begin to question whether we want places being put to their best uses, (or any use really), and by whom those uses are decided.

 

[Jrubbs]

My original post was not to say that I had any intention of actually grinding that ledge, it was simply to point out that the design would not prevent someone who skateboards from doing so if they wanted to. Also I would have gone to a skatepark along time ago if Boston had a good skatepark. However Boston was lacking in a serious skatepark until recently when the Lynch Family Skatepark opened.

 

[Arlington]

^ we weren't reacting to your original post. We were reacting your comments to the effect of granny is too fragile if she can't deal with grinder's scratches which missed the point of the rights of property owners not to have you making aesthetic changes to their surfaces.

I am not a property rights or state-power freak. I see a role for individuals acting in public spaces, and will trim tree branches (using arborist best practices)on city trees when they are out of conformity with the trimming rules (generally 8' above sidewalk and 18' off the street) and pose an immediate hazard (blocking signs). But I judge I make these alterations for the general welfare and under color of law.

 

[cca]

Now this is a real discussion. Awesome.

Just so everyone knows. I am conflicted about this. Some activities have results that outstrip the value that that said activity brings AND .. .I believe public space is for public activity.

The reason there is so much talk about skaters and bmx'ers (as a colleague reminded me is an even more hated sub-group ... I mean ... even skaters dont like those folks) is that their activity sits at an inflection point between how we want spaces to be activated, and our feeling of what constitutes vandalize or damage. Noone has been able to draw a clear line or else the skaters would be gone ... or ... everyone else would stop their bitching.

cca

 

[Padre Mike]

I have long complained about skateboarders using public furniture and private property for their recreation. I would not dream of riding my bike into a church, library, or hotel. I would not smoke where smoking is prohibited. Unfortunately common sense regarding potentially destructive activities seems to be lacking, as is the fact that someone has to maintain and repair that which is defaced or destroyed. Grinding defaces and destroys and there's plenty of evidence for it throughout the city. The land that the chapel sits on and therefore the plaza in front are private property. Try asking permission first and see what response you get. And then be polite and civil enough to obey the wishes of the owners.

 

[cca]

Private is private. That is a very different argument. If this space is private the owner should have the right and recourse to stop detrimental activities, including designing disincentives to the offending activity. So ... in that ... I am on your side

but ...

This topic shifted from the kneewalls around the LoGV, to a topic about the nature of public space.

cca

 

[Arlington]

We might want to go back 20 posts and call it a new thread:
Activating Spaces: Skateboarding or Smoking?

 

[odurandina]

In the late '80s the most amazing campus for the maximum utility of a skateboard was UCSD. You could get from HUL/Revelle all the way to the Middle of Muir or the Library in about 90 seconds. 100% uninterrupted ramp, and plenty of width to avoid the peasant blighters (walking) to their next class.

The closest we ever came to defacing property was doing a frontside slide w/ hard wheels as an advanced braking method (ie; effectively zero evidence that you were ever there). i can't believe the way kids skate and deface property with impunity nowaday's.

 

[jl326]

I cringe when I see skateboarders grease up steps, ledges, etc. and act like they have no regard for the property or surrounding areas (e.g., nearby metal trashcans suddenly also become course obstacles that inevitably get dinged and dented). Yes, even if it happens on public property, it's still discouraging to see it right outside of home.

I imagine that skateboarders and their families would not appreciate it much if I showed up in front of their house and started to burn rubber and do doughnuts with my car, all the while defacing a freshly paved public road that happens to be in front of home.

I save drifting for the track, and I appreciate those who save grinding for the skate park. Just my two cents.

 

[whighlander]

Private is private. That is a very different argument. If this space is private the owner should have the right and recourse to stop detrimental activities, including designing disincentives to the offending activity. So ... in that ... I am on your side

but ...

This topic shifted from the kneewalls around the LoGV, to a topic about the nature of public space.

cca

CCA -- Public or Private -- a person has no right to decide to damage or destroy the property -- unless they own it themselves

Thus to get away from the specific skateboard references -- consider walking or running your dog

In your yard -- you have all the rights of a free being to let your dog do whatever he/she/it pleases as long as the activity doesn't either impinge on a neighbor or cause a problem for an unwitting visitor

Outside your yard you should comply with the regulations promulgated by either a private owner or a public / quasi-public entity -- in other words dog's off leash need to be in control and you need to pick-up after your dog

Back to the skateboarders -- "Griding" is very similar to unrestrained dogs tearing up flower beds, or leaving piles of waste [full disclosure sometimes when my westie and I are walking in the woods -- if he takes a dump off the beaten path -- well...]

 

[Cortes]

Giving it some more thought, it seems possible that what is being conceived of as destructive acts can in fact be generative ones. For instance, a little granite wall that is unused in anyway possible becomes something that contains actual value to a skater who might utilize it. With that in mind we can begin to question whether we want places being put to their best uses, (or any use really), and by whom those uses are decided.

YES! We are need of imaginative public spaces. The recent disscussion regarding 888 Boylston confirms this.

 

[whighlander]

Giving it some more thought, it seems possible that what is being conceived of as destructive acts can in fact be generative ones. For instance, a little granite wall that is unused in anyway possible becomes something that contains actual value to a skater who might utilize it. With that in mind we can begin to question whether we want places being put to their best uses, (or any use really), and by whom those uses are decided.

SavinHill -- here's a "Generative Act" -- some bunch of "Taggers" saw an under-utilized urban canvas as an opportunity to create art

Are you OK with that kind of Generative Act?

Luckily there are still public-spirited citizens

Personally, I think the miscreants if/when caught should have to clean the mess using their tongues

 

[Savin Hill]

I know, I can't believe that some people just decided to tag that wall with the names of a bunch of POW and MIA veterans.

Oh wait, I see.

Trying to bait me onto defending the desecration of a war memorial? You really are a great asset to these discussions. Thanks. Keep up the good work.

 

[Savin Hill]

Isn't this a much more interesting example of how people can use places that they don't own in a generative way?

or this