Seaport Square (Formerly McCourt Seaport Parcels)

Boston02124 said:
I was there yesterday too much walking to get anywhere!
july4th2012142.jpg
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Nevermind, I stand corrected.. looks exactly like -

Bay-Colony-Corporate-Ctr.-1.jpg
 
In the sense that both photos show spaces built around automobiles? Yes.
 
Wait till Fan Pier is done, You will see what we are talking about.

The real key to the success of this area was massive upgrade on underground TRANSIT. Route128 would have been much more accessible to get in & out. The evolution might have been a more neighborhood friendly place to live.

Look at the pictures up above....... Brilliant quote "Boston02124
I was there yesterday too much walking to get anywhere!"
 
I'm a very fit person(age 50 yrs) I walk/run/ lift weights 4-5 days a week and all that walking yesterday nearly killed me lol!
 
Boston02124 said:
I was there yesterday too much walking to get anywhere!
july4th2012142.jpg
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You should have turned the other direction. No doubt, there is a great deal that needs to be done to fill in the vastness. But see Rif's point about the Silver Line. If you are plopped down in the area, rather than walking or driving there, it does feel more the way a city should feel. If the same kind of feeling can develop as the empty parcels fill in, we'll get a pretty good neighborhood, not all that different in my opinion from the Fenway.
 
statler said:
In the sense that both photos show spaces built around automobiles? Yes.
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That's not really fair - we arent talking strip malls and drive thrus... sunbelt suburb this ain't. Built to suit large developers? Yes, absolutely, to the detriment of the built environment.
 
Hey, if you guys are happy with the way the Seaport is turning out, great.

I'll be in the North End.
 
statler said:
Hey, if you guys are happy with the way the Seaport is turning out, great.

I'll be in the North End.
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Listen - I know many people don't think this way here, but in my view (and this is my last comment on this topic) if large footprints are what builds these days, then build away. Point to a US city that is building neighborhoods like the North End.

I'll go to the Seaport on Friday, and North End Saturday! Because they are two totally different sections of our ever-expanding city..
 
I agree with you that there aren't any American cities building neighborhoods like the North End anymore and I can't tell you how deeply depressing I find that to be.
 
statler said:
Hey, if you guys are happy with the way the Seaport is turning out, great.

I'll be in the North End.
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+1 Love the area near Joes Bar & Grill

As I was at the Seaport Saturday night.......which the restaurants were bumping and they should be. The Tall Ships were in the area.

The North End was Mobbed. The Greenway was packed already from NE to Harbor Garage.....PACKED.
Once restaurants and Bars open around the Greenway. Watch OUT...

My instincts and gut are telling me that the Greenway might be the spot for drinking & restaurant experiences in the future.
 
Instead of being overdramatic please admit that the Seaport is not Route 1 in Saugus. Please. I will 100% agree that the Seaport is not prioritizing a great pedestrian experience. That does not mean the corrolary, that it's built for cars, is true.

We need to be specific here.

The real problem is placing the interests of large developers first and the catalysts of great neighborhoods second.
 
statler said:
Hey, if you guys are happy with the way the Seaport is turning out, great.

I'll be in the North End.
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Not a fair comparison Stat. The North End is an almost entirely residential neighborhood. The Seaport was never going to be that. Developers pushed hard for the maximum amount of office space and "conceded" some residential that may or may not get built (see: the steam pouring out of Sicilians ears).

Office space (even in a mixed use environment) requires more parking and a more car-friendly environment. The CEO of Vertex, the partners at Fish & Richardson, the federal judges at Moakely, the executives at Fidelity... all these people aren't going to take the Silver Line.
So the solution would have been zoning the area for only residential (which will take way longer for full buildout) or creating an impotent street grid that results in gridlock similar to what we see in parts of the FinDist.
Personally I would have preferred the latter, but the New North End was never in the cards.
 
In related news, Boston Magazine has a 4 page foldout about the Seaport developments.
 
The Greenway was packed already from NE to Harbor Garage.....PACKED
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Ha, I would love to see what "packed" means here. Not completely depopulated?

+100 for statler's comment. The suburb comparison is a stupid straw man that gives ammunition to people who are comfortable with this marvel of mediocrity. The Seaport is an urban failure, no need to say more.
 
I get that the Seaport never was and never will be a dense urban neighborhood, I just don't get why people want me to be OK with that.

This was a fantastic once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that was lost, it should be grieved.
 
statler said:
I get that the Seaport never was and never will be a dense urban neighborhood, I just don't get why people want me to be OK with that.

This was a fantastic once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that was lost, it should be grieved.
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When the condo market bounces back, there will be density. Yes, the build out won't be nearly as nice as older Boston neighborhoods, but its universally understood that those types of neighborhoods simply are not built in today's Boston (look at the West End) or today's America for that matter. But in a way those gems are also what makes Boston so great.

Given those facts - Could they do it better? Maybe, but then again maybe they will. There is still a lot of opportunity.
 
statler said:
I get that the Seaport never was and never will be a dense urban neighborhood, I just don't get why people want me to be OK with that.

This was a fantastic once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that was lost, it should be grieved.
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I never agree with stater but dam he is on fire.
 
My $0.02

The high price of land pushes out the multi-parcel block concepts for most established cities. This seems to be a universal law of economics. There is no mechanism for forcing multi-parcel blocks on the market. And, why would you.

Given this fact, protection and appreciation for the existing older fabric of the city (north end, south end, back bay, boston wharf) is important to the city so that there can be a plurality of places to have different experiences. This is what makes a rich and engaging city. Midtown, or Downtown Manhattan means nothing without the Soho, the Village, or Harlem. And visa versa.
 
Would you even be able to build a neighborhood with similar fabric to the BB or NE anymore? Wouldn't zoning (setbacks, FAR limits, etc.) prevent that? Especially if you split up the parcels (in which case the setbacks become more frequent).
 
cca said:
My $0.02

The high price of land pushes out the multi-parcel block concepts for most established cities. This seems to be a universal law of economics. There is no mechanism for forcing multi-parcel blocks on the market. And, why would you.

Given this fact, protection and appreciation for the existing older fabric of the city (north end, south end, back bay, boston wharf) is important to the city so that there can be a plurality of places to have different experiences. This is what makes a rich and engaging city. Midtown, or Downtown Manhattan means nothing without the Soho, the Village, or Harlem. And visa versa.
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I think this is the key point. Some believe it's possible to force an organic neighborhood that will end up resembling the North End. They will be perpetually dissatisfied with new development. We can't make that happen in the current economic and political environment. As such, I prefer the idea that we should be open to new paradigms. I'm not convinced the Seaport district will be a disaster, even though I am certainly convinced that it will not be the North End. And I'm fine with that.
 
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