North Bank Bridge Pedestrian Walkway

Officejab said:
http://youtu.be/Yte6-TS_15k

Video of North Bank Bridge

from Cambridge Community Television
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Very nice

One question - How do you make an anit-skateboard barrier which is ADA-compliant?

This is starting to look like the doctrine of Unintended Consequences in action:
1) Great idea pedestrian footbridge over the tracks;
2) Another great idea build a mega skateboard park on the nearly undevelopable land under the highway ramps
3) OOPS -- how do you get from North Station to the Skateboard Park -- take the "footbridge"

I can't be the only person to wonder how many skateboard pedestrian accidents will occur on the footbridge -- particularly at the ends
 
whighlander said:
One question - How do you make an anit-skateboard barrier which is ADA-compliant?
[...]
I can't be the only person to wonder how many skateboard pedestrian accidents will occur on the footbridge -- particularly at the ends
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I see the problem! How about small grooves that look big to small-diameter wheels (skateboards + inlines) but small to large diameter wheels (wheelchairs and bikes)?

I have to believe that skateboard parks rely on social or law enforcement...skate in the park, not on stairs and rails and overpasses leading up.
 
Why do you want to be anti-skateboard? All you need is clips on any edges or railings to keep them from grinding. If they're just traveling along, leave them be....
 
^ i have to agree. If the skate boarders are just using the board as a mode of transportation then there is absolutely no problem.
 
BostonUrbEx said:
Why do you want to be anti-skateboard? All you need is clips on any edges or railings to keep them from grinding. If they're just traveling along, leave them be....
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I don't want to be anti-skateboard. It gives me no pleasure at all. But what does it look like when skateboarders travel along a large arching bridge?

The mix of tools, and skills, and gravity seems likely to put skateboarders on a trajectory (for lack of a better word) that while perhaps safe in itcelf, will not fit well with the trajectories of cyclists and pedestrians.

The only inherent bias in my statement above is the belief that cyclists and pedestrians and wheelchairs are the "design use" of the bridge, a bias which I believe the numbers and design simulations support. Having built a bridge biased against skateboarders, it seems unsafe to mix it in close proximity with a skatepark biased entirely in their favor, because it is mixing incompatable trajectories that creates unsafe conditions.
 
Arlington said:
I don't want to be anti-skateboard. It gives me no pleasure at all. But what does it look like when skateboarders travel along a large arching bridge?

The mix of tools, and skills, and gravity seems likely to put skateboarders on a trajectory (for lack of a better word) that while perhaps safe in itcelf, will not fit well with the trajectories of cyclists and pedestrians.

The only inherent bias in my statement above is the belief that cyclists and pedestrians and wheelchairs are the "design use" of the bridge, a bias which I believe the numbers and design simulations support. Having built a bridge biased against skateboarders, it seems unsafe to mix it in close proximity with a skatepark biased entirely in their favor, because it is mixing incompatable trajectories that creates unsafe conditions.
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A bit legalistic -- But -- Yea -- Gravity Rules -- give a skateboader a downslope -- they'll accelerate to speeds which are fine in a skateboard park -- but dangerous for pedestrians, particularly the elderly, very young and others who don't maneuver well or have balance problems

I can just see NBC-Boston (ch 7) or Fox-Boston 25) reporting on their morning news, weather and traffic -- here's a first; "The NorthPoint Pedestrian Bridge is temporarily closed while the State Police Accident Investigation Unit completes the accident reconstruction and the Life Flight helicopter ferries the victims to MGH. The good news is that because the accident happened almost across the street from MGH that both the speeding skateboarder and the wheel-chair bound paraplegic veteran will survive after emergency surgery.

If you think this is far-fetched just watch a skateboarder accelerating down a relatively long slope -- I did this once when I was about 10 or so, lost control on a junction between two paths, flew through the air and embedded a piece of the asphalt path in my elbow.
 
found5dollar said:
^ i have to agree. If the skate boarders are just using the board as a mode of transportation then there is absolutely no problem.
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Found$ -- there is no problem if the skateboarders are carrying the boards. However, if they are riding then there is just as much a problem as if multiple bicyclists are riding in a "peloton" -- the combination of narrow constrained sloping paths with skateboarders is incompatible with pedestrians

But Arlington might have hit on a solution -- a combination of parallel small amplitude grooves running perpendicularly to the path (rumble strips) and some semi-random wiggly groves running in the general same direction of the path (i.e. grooved pavement -- motorcycles beware on the highway) should slow-down the skateboarders with minor effects on larger wheels or people wearing shoes
 
Wow so much fear of people on wheels. Skateboarders may be annoying sometimes but I wouldn't consider them a huge threat to my safety.
 
whighlander said:
Found$ -- there is no problem if the skateboarders are carrying the boards. However, if they are riding then there is just as much a problem as if multiple bicyclists are riding in a "peloton"
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...or people on Segways.

I will admit a crazy bias in favor of Segways (although I'm a non-owner), but they are another mode, like skateboards, that is an elegant "like-walking-but-better" way to get around that sadly is hard to mix safely with actual walking.
 
BostonUrbEx said:
Why do you want to be anti-skateboard? All you need is clips on any edges or railings to keep them from grinding. If they're just traveling along, leave them be....
Click to expand...

They tried using metal deterents in Copley Sq and the skateboards just broke them off. See this week's Courant.
 
^ The same thing happened in the Nashua St Park near Spaulding. All of the plastic guards on the granit edgings were just chipped off. The cops do not take notice. Skateboarders take over that park every day during the Summer. I've been waiting for one of them to take a dive into the river.
 
Arlington said:
...or people on Segways.

I will admit a crazy bias in favor of Segways (although I'm a non-owner), but they are another mode, like skateboards, that is an elegant "like-walking-but-better" way to get around that sadly is hard to mix safely with actual walking.
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Arlington -- a fairly heffty teenager on a skateboard headed down a good slope can carry more momentum and thus is more of a danger to a pedestrian or a person in a wheel chair than even a Segway

Note Boston has banned Seqways from sidewalks though not so Cambridge
 
Is everyone else on this board a cranky old man? If you are worried about a "heffty teenager on a skateboard" on this bridge being a danger, what about a person in a motorized wheel chair? those are heavier and can go by far faster. What about a person on a bike distracted by the view off the bridge? a falling bike is alot more dangerous that a board with wheels. What about a person texting? I have seen countless videos of people texting while walking and falling into fountains, getting hit by cars, etc. etc. Yes skateboarders can be a danger if they are not paying attention, but so can every other mode of personal transportation. The only way to keep people from getting hurt is to keep them from doing anything.
 
As always, the key to safety is maintaining a high level of alert perception. Everybody should use a bridge/street/sidewalk/etc. in a safe fashion, but not all will. For me to be safe, I count on the idea that somebody else might not be, so I pay attention to everybody else, and look for dangers. The texter falling in to the fountain is a classic example, but more problematic is the pedestrian who suddenly moves to the right as a bike is approaching on that side, or a roller blader who starts to swing her arms and legs more widely without warning, or a cyclist who forgets that he is moving much faster than the pedestrian. These hazards are avoidable if we are careful in how we approach other users of the bridge.
 
found5dollar said:
Is everyone else on this board a cranky old man? If you are worried about a "heffty teenager on a skateboard" on this bridge being a danger, what about a person in a motorized wheel chair? those are heavier and can go by far faster. What about a person on a bike distracted by the view off the bridge? a falling bike is alot more dangerous that a board with wheels. What about a person texting? I have seen countless videos of people texting while walking and falling into fountains, getting hit by cars, etc. etc. Yes skateboarders can be a danger if they are not paying attention, but so can every other mode of personal transportation. The only way to keep people from getting hurt is to keep them from doing anything.
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Found$ -- the key is the word 'Teenager" -- hefty was just for emphasis

Generally people in motorized wheelchairs are nor pulling "wheelies" and such. The same can not be said for most "hefty teenage boys" on a skateboard although I'm sure other categories of skateboarding people might have a few "outlyers" who act similarly

Remember that the teenagers are the category of automobiles drivers most likely to wrap themselves around trees and similar outcomes of out-of-control driving on quiet country lanes and such
 
underground said:
So basically your answer to his question is yes.
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Underground -- Non, Nyet, Nein, Ochi, Nahin, Zhoq, Bu shi, Nei, Nie, Na, Nu, Naw, Nae, Ne, Yuk, Ni, Nage, Nne,..... " No" in more than 520 languages " http://users.elite.net/runner/jennifers/no.htm
-- I couldn't quite come up with 1000X

No -- my idea of a well regulated pedestrian bridge is a bridge for all --- compatible with the least able -- much as the law of the sea governs how row boats, sailboats, motor boats and super tankers can in principle navigate the same harbor

That means everyone on the bridge is walking or moving at walking speed even if it seems empty when you get on the bridge -- Why -- because someone might get on the bridge after you begin your "land speed record attempt" -- who can not handle a person moving as a vehicle

The same principle means no loose dogs on a bridge even dogs under voice control -- and that's painful for me as a caninophile
 
Someone might get hit? My word! Well, we should probably cover everyone in pillows to save them from the hooligan teenage scourge then.

/clutches pearls and thinks of the children.
 
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